E-mu Emulator Sampler User Forum for the EIII EII EI and EIII XP

I used to have a pdf from emulator archive that was the procedure to convert an EII to an EII +
Basically it was changing all of the drams from 4264-15 to 41256-15 or 41256-12 and changing the jumper wires at W1 , W2, W3 & W4.
Also new Main and Scanner Eproms for the EII+
I believe the EII+ doesn't have the piggyback memory board that is the reason for the jump up to 256k drams instead of 64k but like I said I don't remember and have lost the pdf over the years.
So 2 things anyone have the pdf instructions and can anyone confirm that the EII+ doesn't have the piggyback memory board.
TIA,
Dana

So as soon as I get around to getting an ide toaster I should be able to locate this pdf form Rob at the emulator archive.
I'll post it when I find it.

I have the pdf,
i've never done the upgrade.

Thanks so much I knew I was imagining it but who can know for sure the older I get LOL ;D

I'm remembering why I never completed this upgrade.
The instructions are for a Rev 0 Digital board and don't apply for a Rev 1 Digital board that I have in my EII.
I had bought mine a couple of months before they came out with the EII +
My Digital board even has the labels for the jumpers to set it to either 256K or 64K.

Once I get everything else solved and in working order I think I'm going to do the upgrade and document it for those that have the Rev 1 Digital board as I believe it is going to be a much simpler upgrade than in the instructions from Rob at the Emulator Archive.

By the way I have two toggle switches already installed in mine that allow me to configure from the 64K to 256K jumper settings.

I'd be really interested to hear the outcome.

Just got everything back up and running as the regular version and just replaced the display.
This or the replacing one of the drives with SD drive is next.
I'll keep you posted.
What rev is your digital board?

So I started experimenting with this I got a hold of the guy who burned the last eproms for me and he said I was good with the versions that I had 2.1 Main & 3.1 Scanner he said that they would work for either a regular EII or the EII+ only the HD needed a different Main.
So I've removed the piggyback memory board swapped out the 32 64k chips on the main board with 256k ones.
I set my jumper switches to 256k settings(remember I had added switches when I was experimenting going to a + model prior)
Next I ran the disk based memory test had to change out a few ram but now it passes.

I only have a 3.0 OS disk and I believe I need a 3.1 OS to be able to access the other bank but I'm able to load one bank for now.

I'm getting some distortion on playback but I believe some of the ram is not good I was getting errors and just swapped them around.
Have some more on order now will see when I replace them.

Anyone in the Seattle area that I can get a 3.1 OS disk from or through mail.

Update I was able to install the 256k drams on the main board set the jumpers to W1 & W4 for 256k and was able to get it to pass the memory test but it was inconsistent and when I loaded a disk I was getting erratic playback with distortion.
I'm thinking I have a few bad ram so I'm waiting on some more.
Still though even with OS 3.0 booted entering 00 did nothing so I'm guessing there has to be something that I'm missing that tells the software that it now has 2 banks of 512k.

Can anyone with an EII + confirm that OS 3.0 is a working OS for that configuration.

Again the goal here is to develop instructions to convert a single bank Emulator II to a II+ that already has the Rev 1 Digital Board.
The previous instructions that where online and updated by the Emulator Archive was based on converting a Rev 0 Digital Board.
Apparently it was never documented by Emu Systems in house when they switched from doing ones with a single bank to the dual bank using the Rev 1 Digital Boards on both.

Great info.
I have the rev1 digital Board.

I thought that o.s 3.1 Was only for the midisupermode. But the user manuel for EII+ has os3.1written on the first page

Yeah that's what I thought initially but then I saw some where that described what each OS version did and it said that OS 3.0 added double memory banks.
It makes sense that is correct because that is a major OS change thus the jump from 2.6 to 3.0.

I Wonder why that's notre working for you. Did you used 150ns for the DRAM. Cause 120ns and 100ns are too fast

Yes they where 120ns but I believe that is what they used when they went to the 256k drams.
Do you have the EII+ and are yours labeled KM41256AP-15?

Well that's not the issue I found several pictures of the insides of Emulator II+ with 120ns drams in them.
Matter of fact one of them is serial number 15 later than mine it it's an EII+
Missed it by a couple of months probably.
<https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-EL4EJnhYIhQ/Vp5o1W27_qI/AAAAAAAKKyo/bQd3tD5wzwI/s1600/9.jpg>

It even still has the stand offs for the piggyback board same as mine.

Mine is serial 1160 i think. I had never seen the jumpers setting to upgrade memory.

I have the main 2.1 eprom.

The jumper settings are between IC10 & IC11
256k = W1 & W4
64k = W2 & W3

I wired toggle switches to switch the connection for W1 W2 and W3 W4
So I wired the one that goes W1 or W2 to one switch and W3 or W4 to another switch.

Okai okai.

I've order tms4256 150ns on eBay. I've checked th? digital board S/N ans it is numbered 880!.

I have the eprom 2.1 main but I Saw on EII+ pictures from th? forum that's main 2.1EII+ printed on the eprom. See bushing conversation

I will never never sell my EII ! My children will play with it on 2049.

My understanding of the Main boot rom is that 2.1 no matter how it is labeled is truly the same.
So the Main 2.1 works for all versions.
I checked two bin files one labeled 2.1 and the other labeled 2.1+ and they where identical.
My order of extra KM41256AP-12 came in yesterday going to have another go at this.

It might be that earlier version of the plus where only compatible with the 150ns chips since that was the speed of the 64k variety.
They may have changed a resistor value capacitor value or one or several chips to get the timing right for using the 120ns variety drams.
I have 16 pictures sent by Alpha maybe I'll be able to find a clue there.

No success today with the 120ns 256k drams so I ordered some 150ns 256k drams.
It may just be a timing issue for my particular Emulator II.
Hopefully I will have success next weekend t get this to an Emulatator II+.
Have my fingers crossed.
I was able to verify that there is no difference in chips that are left empty between the EII and the EII+ when both have the Rev 1 digital board.

WE crossed th? fingers yeah.

I have ordered Texas instrument 150ns..

EII + or EII - ?

What chip do you have at IC11 on the digital board.
All the pictures I've seen so far of the EII+ has a CD74HCT138E by texas instruments in them
Mine has a 74HCTLS138N I can't seem to find any exact information on the one in mine but I know they are of the same variety Line Decoder/Demultiplexer Inverting and Non-Inverting but they could have different output combinations and this might be the difference.

It is a CD... on mine

Also check IC98 it should be the same.
This might be why the upgraded memory is not working for me.
Sounds like a Mouser order in my near future.
Thanks,
Dana

Unless the chips that I have in IC11 and IC98 are just an off brand that is labeled different I may have found the difference between the regular and the plus models along with the 256k drams of course.

It's a CD again.
! Maybe it IS a Good news

Hy!
I wonder what did you use To make the jumper setting? What kind of harness?
Do you have To solder behind the digital Board( removed the Board... ) Or solder simply above the Board?
I dont receive yet the DRAM..
Thanks

Just two jumper wires on top is all you  probably won't have to pull the board to solder them in.

Just been reading this with interest as bought an EII with add memory board fitted but can't access the second memory bank.

(https://s15.postimg.cc/hs5numn7f/20180813_191214.jpg)

Did you clarify that OS 3.1 is needed? I only have OS 2.3 currently and getting system crash when trying to access using double tap 00. Thanks.

Hi JMP,
The ones with the piggyback memory board are actually the regular EII.
They did this because the drams at the time that were readily available were 64K so they needed 64 of them to be able to have one bank of memory.
Later on when they were able to get the 256K drams they eliminated the extra piggyback memory board since they were able to get twice the memory with just 32 of the 256K drams.

Yours is a Rev 1 digital board also so once I get this figured out you should be able to convert yours to a EII + also.

I'm waiting on my new 256K drams and the two CD74HCT138E to arrive to test this theory.

I'm guessing by the configuration of yours that it is a high 11XX or a low 12XX serial number.

Can you let me know what chip numbers you have at IC and IC98 on the digital board?
Thanks,
Dana

Hey guys, and girls!

Inventaire received the Texas DRAM. I hope testing that this week-end while babies sleep!

Greats

 i.ve received the memory, pull out the memory expansion Board and replaced the 32dram on digital Board.
Before to put new DRAM, i made the switch position for 256k.

At power up hxc loads only 3 steps and the system bug, EII screen stay with *emulatorII* boot in progress.

I've tried to power up EII with 1 DRAM pull out, and the strange thing IS that hxc load the bank and i could play ( i didn't try to find if some sounds were missing).

So there isn't problem with the new DRAM.
I've got the main 2.1 chipset and scanner rom i don't know.

Does somebody Can burn eeprom with the EII+ main rom? I saw this file on the yahoogroup?

Hi
You probably know this, but you can find it on ebay. I just bought a kit with the latest ROM, SCANNER and DIAGNOSTIC chips.

AlphaC

Great , you're right. Does it working for EII +. I've got the main 2.1 for EII .

The seller I used is  ktracker_rus just tell him you have a EMU II+  :)

Thanks,
You 're right, i have To find some eeprom services.
I've read on older post that people who wanted to downgrade EII + HD to EII+ had used special main 2.1 EII + or main 2.3.
There are on emulator group. Great Guy who do that.

ktracker rus was the one I bought mine from on ebay he told me that the rom for an EII and EII+ where the same.
That said I wonder if there was some confusion since he had already sold me a set for a regular EII.
I was pretty clear though that I wanted to buy another set for an EII+.
I did however compare the two files for the Main 2.1 that is labeled for an EII+ and the Main 2.1 that is labeled for a regular EII from the files area and they where identical files.
I used Text Pad which I use for writing programming it has a nice feature that it compares two files to see if they are identical.

My new chips are suppose to be here next Thursday should be able to try them out next weekend.
If anyone has success at this let us know and the steps you did to get it to work.
Thanks,
Dana

Maybe he needed the information just for the label  ;D

Ah thank you, that solves it. I had initially been told it was additional memory making it an EII+ but I see now it isn't. Good luck with your resolve. Cheers.

When I pull IC98 to swap it with the brand new CD74HCT138E I noticed that the original had the last leg bent under so it wasn't making contact.
Can anyone with a working EII+ verify that the last leg of IC98 needs to be bent under.

Installed the new IC and dram still no total joy while the memory test good I'm getting a consistent static in longer samples.
I'm guessing the ram is not being address correctly but it's a mystery to me what needs to be changed.

Tried bending the last leg under on IC98 to see if there was any difference same result as before.
Upgraded memory test good but ram is obviously being address wrong.
So here is a quick run down of the history of the upgrade and what I've tried.

The memory upgrade EII to EII+ pdf instructions was based on converting a Rev 0 digital board EII to an EII+
Written by Emu Systems 01/22/1984
It was last modified by Rob at the Emulator Archive on 09/18/1999
It involved cutting traces and allot of kludge wires to reroute to achieve the changes that were made to the Rev 1 digital board.

Again the goal here is to take a regular EII that already has the Rev 1 digital board ad convert it into an EII +.
The assumptions are that you should have to replace the 32 Drams on the digital board with 256K 150ns or 256K 120ns drams.
It should require Main 2.1 and Scanner 3.0 eproms and OS 3.0 or OS 3.1
If there is a difference in these eproms for a regular EII or an EII+ I haven't been able to determine any difference.
Also it is assumed that the Rev 1 digital board would not need any traces cut or kludge wires added.
So far I've been able to match pictures of EII + digital boards as far as the chips and what chips are left blank.
So the questions remain are this
Does it require OS 3.1? I've tried OS 3.0 with no success
Does it require a specific version of the Main 2.1 eprom or Scanner 3.0 eprom to support the additional bank function?
Are there any kludge wires on the bottom of a Rev 1 digital board that makes it an EII + functionallity?
Are there any required cut traces?

I'm really surprised that there wasn't a tech bulletin created on how to convert an EII with a Rev 1 digital board into an EII +.

I think the pin bended IS to provide the Good communication with Old Macintosh.

Have you try to solder the jumper differently? Do not solder jumper as EII + photo? Start from the first 2 point EII config until  w1 & w4 like a ''V''.

??

Yeah I have the jumpers set using a two switches that I had installed years ago to be able to switch back and forth the jumpers.
So the source wire goes to the center of the switch and one side goes to w1 and other to w2 then the other switch is wired to toggle between w3 & w4.
I verified that the connections where good with a meter.

So ... What's next?
I'm looking for eprom and UV eraser and eprom programmer.
Approximatly 80dollars budget via eBay and aliexpress. Need just some cash.
Burn 2.1 eII + main boot or 2.3 via yahoogroup.
Downgrade works fine from EII HD+ to EII+ with the 2.3 main rom...
On eBay be careful it's a shame to read that we'll have the last O.S 3.1 with the scanner rom 3.1... Misunderstood!

The forum IS a very Big acknowledge for all this tricky crap.

I'm thinking at this point it's a new Main 2.1
I think I was able to find a eprom burner for around $56.

Ordered a eprom programmer and some eproms today.
Should have it by next week.
I'll let you know if it works.
If so I can probably burn you some eproms too since I ordered some extras

Nice! Really looking forward to the outcome.

It's Nice Dana that you try to make it.

You put your cash on a project without known the finality.

I don't have the Time to try and maybe knowing that you try it Can give me peace.

Well I was able to burn the new Main Rom 2.1 from the files area that came from a working EII +
But still the same result as before.
This is using OS3.0
Anyone with a working EII+ that can send me an OS3.1 disk to check to see if I can get this working?

No joy in mudville today LOL
Thanks,
Dana
PS anyone need Eproms burned PM me I have a few extra

Bad news.
Do you have an hxc card?
Sorry I've pull out all disk drive on m'y EII.

Did you try with the main 2.3?

I'm interested in.

No HXC yet but I'm planning on putting one in eventually
I think Main 2.3 is for the HD version?

They use it to downgrade HD + to a normal  EII+ model.

After looking at the jumper settings again I may have an error in how I've wired them up.
I did that many many years ago when I installed the toggle switches.
I'm hoping that this is the problem
Stay tuned
Thanks,
Dana

It will work.
Hope
Hope

Well here is to hoping.
I rerouted the switches and I was still having problems.
It would click 3 times on the drive then nothing.
So in a last ditch effort I found a different Main Boot ROM bin online.
Compared the file to the one had burned previously and they were different.
So I burned the new Eprom with this bin file stuck it and booted up
Whala!!!
Great Success!!!
After 34 years I now have an Emulator II+

So again if you have a regular EII with a Rev 1 digital board it is easy to upgrade it to a EII + (Well it is now!!!)
Process
Open up EII
Remove piggyback memory board
You will need to remove jumper wires from W2 & W3
You will need to add two new jumper wires from W3 to W4 and from W1 to W2.
These will be in a vertical line to each other.
Previous jumpers are running horizontal.
Replace the 32 64k memory drams on the digital board with 32 256k memory drams.
I replaced IC11 & IC98 with new CD74HCT138E
I bent the bottom right leg underneath when replacing IC98 to match the one that I pulled.
Replaced the Main Boot Rom with one that I burned using the E2newrMain_HDMB2_3_MAIN.bin  file poste by czh90 from the Yahoo group site.

Links to the parts I used
I'd recommend ABRA Electronics as they had the DRAM the 74HCT138 plus all the stuff I needed to build a new floppy cable to get ready for the HXC update that I'm doing next.

DRAM 150ns super cheap 65 cents each
https://abra-electronics.com/ics-semiconductors/dynamic-video-rams/41256-150-16-pin-256k-x-1-150ns-dram-41256-150.html

74HCT138 35 cents each
https://abra-electronics.com/ics-semiconductors/74hct-series-dip-package/74hct138-74hct138.html

Blank Eproms
https://abra-electronics.com/ics-semiconductors/eproms/m27c64a-15f1-eprom-u-volt-64k-bit-8k-x-8-150ns-fdip-28-m27c64a-15f1.html

I used a TL886II Plus USB eprom programmer to burn my chips got it off of Amazon.

Well there it is in  a nutshell.
Post if you have any problems are need an eprom burned doing the upgrade.
Thanks,
Dana

GREAT!!!!!!!

First for the eprom please!!!!!!

Send me a PM with your info.
And we will get it sorted out.
Thanks,
Dana

Yes the board should be removed to solder the jumper wires do not try to solder them from above.
I had to pull the board when I re-soldered mine.
Sorry that I suggested that you could do it from above.