E-mu Emulator Sampler User Forum for the EIII EII EI and EIII XP

...... today i'm stuck with a problem on my new favorite : a lovely EIII keyboard.

It first started with an empty EIII that I bought a few months ago on some local sales I could not resist to the looks of it (:).

I was planning to do something that could sound foolish to most of you:
>>Fit an EIII Xp inside it with a generiq keyboard matrix , could sound pretty dumb but hey...

A few week's ago I couldn't believe it : there was a full set of boards on ebay!

Some of you already know the seller: Synthmeister.de> the guy behind the (wheel) IC that allow the 8mb upgrade!



What a fary tale! but this is where it gets existing ans difficult:

on the cpu board one critical chip is missing:
it is the IC 27; a PAL16l8A;  the Cs pal for chip select and it's a nightmare to find it.
(synthmeister.de is stil selling the ic needed to do the memory update but he doesn't have a EIII anymore)

If someone can help me that would be fantastic!

I'm not even looking for the chip itself but the jedec data inside it!

i already mailed Vintage planet and EPR about it but they can't help (no stock)if you know a service shop that could have the data...

As i'm working in a compagny specialised in transportation signal ;I have all the needs to flash chip, I could also provide copy of some chip to the community...

I'm after any chip/data/ boards that could help me to solve the problem /Money reward of course!

Hello Alan an user of this forum had an Emulator III in parts check if you have still
http://audio.synth.vintage.free.fr/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=68

check ebay...

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=+PAL16l8A&_sacat=See-All-Categories

Thanks Mg73 but the chip insn't the problem.
I already have some.
The data inside it is the problem : it needs to be flashed with a jed file...

Thanks Vitosky,

I'm sending him a request right now.

Vitosky,

I've checked the audio-synth forum and I can't find the post.
I may have been deleted?

anyway I've sent a request to the site owner, He could be the right guy.

ok,more than I knew.
That probably explains the problems I´ve been having with my CPU boards.

So if we get the data file we can use a ordinary PAL16L8A and flash it
Will a ordinare eprom burner do?

Yes That's waht we have to do.

it would be great to have that data stored for the future...


Dvdborn already provide data for these two eprom on his site :

EMULATOR III - Version 2.0
EPROM type: 27128B
Label: IP381A EMU SYSTEMS 4088
Location: Lower left corner of the CPU board
download here

EPROM type: 27128B
Label: IP380A EMU SYSTEMS 4088

yes I saw that,but didn´t know it was the same for the PAL.


well so just the rip the info of working PAL´s and save the data.

Two if my faulty CPU boards(surely the PAL´s) is now  at Niko´s and he also got a working unit there.
I talk to him and see if he can get the data out the working unit.

strange the link here work!
then send a request to philippe69 the Site Admin

Hi Alan I am the admin of www.audio-synth-vintage.com

I have a cpu board,but it is not for sale French as you are if you want to visit me in lyon to copy the CMOS there is no problem but I doubt we can emu protects it pal
come with your equipment to try a copy and if it works ca has a lot of people would one day could be tested to copy all PAL emu emax and E3 if you have the equipment

@++
philippe.69

Hi Philippe.69

I'm working in a compagny that design electronics solutions for transportation.
Here I have all the equipment needed to copy chip or even to build new boards.

It would be great to buy or borrow the chip /a cpu board/....but I know the one you have now is from a client.

Lets be patient one will maybe pops-up on internet or at your work.

If there is no other solution I'll come to Lyon but it is not going to happen soon.
I'm going to ask my collegues if they have knowledge on how to deal with the protection.


i already mailed EPR with no luck I'll try sovemam.fr today

thanks to all of you Ill keep you posted!

No chance with SOVEMAM MS but they are very nice > I recommend them.

test the other link I gave mail
tester l'autre lien que j'ai donné par ma boite mail
la aussi je doute d'une réponse favorable
faudra venir à lyon et pas dans des mois je vais finir le 2eme E3 bientôt et le rendre au client fin du mois prochain

www.audio-synth-vintage.com
philippe.69@free.fr

thanks Philippe but I already tested EPR (http://www.eprelectronics.com/store/E-mu-Keyboards-PARTS-c1/)

(one week ago)

The Proprietary chip (like Fchip or other) are protected but the small ic like the PAL16l8A shouldn't.
(even if protected it can be hacked but it will need some work so I'm not qualified to do> my coworkers have that knowledge)

i'm going to make copy of some other eIII chips to mesure the difficulty, and to see if the data is protected.

I'll post the results and the extracted data.

It will be difficult for me to come to Lyon soon but i keep that in mind.
It would be easier for me to send you the tool.
you'll need a windows 98 pc with a serial port...

I have a PC with Windows 98 serial port ok
it will take a real good tutorial with which you are sending with the material

explain = no  problem

So you're saying it's possible to actually create some new PAL chips?

Count me in as *very* interested.  My EIII was acting up before I did the CF card upgrade.. and while that probably means the problem was in the hard drive I just can't sleep well at night knowing how many of those custom chips are in there!

I live in the US and could possibly be talked into donating my working CPU board for this.

Figuring those FChips out would be a real feat!

Hi Moogah,

that is a very kind proposition thanks!

First I'm going to make an attempt on some of the Similar pal chip that lay around like the ic11 or ic10 that can be found near the ic27 on the cpu board.

I'll bring my board at work tomorow and we'll see what comes up.
I talked with my collegues and they think that these small ic shouldn't be protected as they are just stack solution used to reduce cost.

I don't want to broke your hopes but fchip are more than likely protected as they where comming directly from the E-mu R&D

having these chip data saved would be an insurance for the future maybe someone will come with the fchip data one day : no one can tell yet.

Anyway if this attempt is successful I'll be more than grateful if you can lend me your IC27 to make a copy (of course I'll be covering every expenses)

By the way the emu reference for that ic 27 pal chip  is ip374b / emu 1188

Hi Guys,

Today i have only good news!


It seems all the chips on the cpu board can be copied. Even the fchip! everything else is very common: pals and national geographic processors.

I have a big data I/o chip programmer in my company and the needed pal /eprom do the complete work.(I’m planning to make a backup of all the chips-i just need to get used to that machine!)

And …someone from the EIII forum have the data from the IC27 and a chip programmer and will send me the data!

My CPU board isn’t passing the test yet :some other chip look bad on the meter but I hope it will be running next month.(I’m looking for a picture of someone cpu board:I have a 10nf capacitance missing on a corner and a contact line seems cut)

I’ll keep you posted about my progress.

Fantastic.

Absolutely amazing news man!  Especially about the FChip, I was sure those would never be replaceable!

I'm very interested in getting a set of spare chips!  If you can get them made I'll happily buy them!

Do you still need to get a look at a CPU board?  My only camera is on my phone, but I can open my EIII up this weekend and try to take some pics.

Hi Moogah,

Yes I'm still after a picture of a corner of the board.
I have Tried to upload pictures from mine on the forum but the attached file quota was full on the server.

I'll give it a try again after this post.

same today>lets call the admin

If it's a problem with the forum, I highly recommend imgur.com for hosting images.  Really simple to use and free of bloat and malware.

I'll get mine open this weekend... sorry for the delay, but I'm sure you understand that working on these for any reason is a delicate operation and I need to clean up some desks to have enough room!

Image upload should work again.

I'm in need of help also (see "EMU EIII has burnt thingy" in this same section.
I thought I'd try and help you and hopefully I can get some as well.
I can post a pics(s) of what you're looking for - just describe what board/where on it you need.
I may even be able to send you the chip you need to copy.
Please take a look at my post about the back of a board and also I could use the order of the boards in the carraige, as I'm not completely sure they are placed in the right order.

Took a bunch of pics, hopefully you can see what you need :)

http://imgur.com/a/HMpDN

Thanks Moogah,

thanks for the pictures
It is exactly what I needed

Your board show not cut like mine:

A picture of the bad IC27 I need :

Artbylaw,

Your caps problem look very similar to what hapened on my board.
I'm going to compare the back of mine with your pictures.
I'll post a reply on your topic.
I keep your proposition to lend me your chip.



Also pictures of the the programmer used to copy the chips:

Sounds good Alan - it will be much appreciated.
While your at it - if you could somehow give me the order of how those 5 boards stack up, that would be a load off my mind. I'm not quite sure the previous owner cared to put them back correctly (or whichever friend he had working on it) because they weren't exactly "pushed in" all the way when I first opened it.
Also, those chips - you can just pry them up - correct? There's no soldering holding it?

Yes there is no soldering
Ic are pushed in sockets.

I use a probe stick to gently lift both sides.

Some use a ic extractor but I don't have any at home.
I tried to use one at work but it is time consuming for a 20 pins IC.

Unfortunatly I did not had news yet from the person who proposed me the data for the ic27.
Summer is nearly here so we have less time digging into our devices.



As some proposed me, I would be very gratefull if someone could lend me the chip or board for a week.
Of course I'll cover all the expenses from the start via paypal.

thanks in advance.

Hi,

Any  more news on this exciting matter?

I have three non working EIII right now
quite sure that there is problem with some PAL´s on the CPU boards
send two of my  CPU boards to Niko at Studiorepair.de
for repairing but havn´t been able to get hold of him over a month
and his website is down,hope I don´t lost them forever.

But if there is any data available yet for the PAL´s IC1, IC10
i can reprogram there ones i have on the third CPU board
i have to get one EIII up and running.

Hi everyone

First :  thanks Artbylaw who lended me his chip.


Well... it's not going as fast as I tought it would be... there could be a protection somewere...

the first attempt looked fine, the copy was done in ten minutes.

But when we tested the data using a simulator it comes up with an error-
I could have tested the new chip in my EIII but it is sure that it will not work and I don't want to test the original chip in my EIII as there could be other issues on my board.

After several attemps using different chipreaders it always ended with the same error.

Could it be a protection?

I don't really know but the only way to be sure it to run a live analysis:

I have to send signals to every inputs of the chip and to monitor the outputs.
that will give me what is called a "table of truth", using that binary data I' should be able to rewrite the missing jedec data;
you can see an exemple here : http://flipprojets.free.fr/AlvinBSMT_E.html

note mg73 :: the technique will only work with a few chips : they must be combinatorial only (I'll explain later)
I have to check that the IC you need are registred or combinatorial.



I builded the test tool(pretty simple, but must be clean:  a 5v psu; an 20pin ic base; 10 switches & a multimeter)
now I have to test the 1024 combinaisons! (lets say 100 a day)
I could build something like this http://cgfm2.emuviews.com/pal/index.html but I'll have to post my reply next christmas...

I hope I'll post my results in a few days...

Great work you doing!!

On the CPU board there is 4 PAL´s
IC 10,IC 27 that are 16L8A
which are combinatorial and should be ok

IC 11,IC32 are 16R4 and are problematic,right?

Is there anywhere to get this as spare parts?
I don´t think I´m getting my back from that service guy in Germany
been trying to reach him over a month now.
Does anyone know him here
NIkolaus Riehm at studiorepair.de in Bad Homburg.

No new news in a couple months now, Alan....how's the work coming?

I didn't have any success testing out the power supply myself.
 I'm just going to take it to some people that have worked on a few things of mine in the past.
I will need that chip back to see if it fully comes back to life.
When do you think you'll be done with it?

OK, it looks like I'm needing to replace the capacitor for C-49 and C-54.
Any help as to what kind of replacement to get...or where?
Thanks in advance. I promise to document to whole process of repair and post for future reference. ;D ;D ;D


--------------------------



 Lunettes De Soleil (http://www.lunettesdesoleilenfant.net)

I can send you some capacitors for the C-49 (I'm not sure if the same type is used for the C-54)
P.M. me your address and I will shoot them over. I got them off eBay and have way more than I need.
- artbylaw

Alan......quite a stretch time now with no word as to what is going on with the duplicating process.
I sent you my chip in good faith (even at my expense) in order to try and help you out.
I really hope you do not intend on not replying and just keeping it. That would be wrong in so many ways...
Please get in contact with me.
-artbylaw