E-mu Emulator Sampler User Forum for the EIII EII EI and EIII XP

i have the library's on my PC, i bought a MAC SE30 wich has a Harddrive.

I have a USB Zipdrive and also a SCSI zipdrive so USB zip to PC and SCSI zip to MAC

can i just copy the library from pc onto zip and use it with the MAC or how do i do this?

Thanks for helping

You have to make sure that the correct Mac signature is being assigned to the SD files when you copy them to a ZIP disk on your PC.
This is what I do:
- I use a USB ZIP disk connected to Windows XP PC and a SCSI ZIP disk connected to a Mac SE/Classic (with the old 4.2 zip driver installed on it)
- I always use ZIP disks formatted by the Mac (these are not standard readible by PC however...)
- I use the free trial version of MacDisk for Windows to read/write these Mac ZIP disks on my Windows PC.
- I configured the signature CREATOR = XFER and FILETYPE = E2BK for PC files with extension .EII (this has to be done in the options->signature editor of MacDisk - don't forget to SAVE the signature file in MacDisk !)

The trial version of MacDisk has no time expire, it's only limitation is that it will not handle files larger than 1 MB. Which is no problem for us, since EII files are less than 500KB.
All trial versions of MacDisk raise some error messages at startup time on my PC, but those can be ignored. It works fine...

More information about this procedure can be found in the EMXP manual (somewhere around page 67).

///E-Synthesist

Thanks for helping,

i downloaded the macdisk trial version, it works great exept that for now i can't get my external scsi zip to work with the SE30. It is connected but it doesn't see the scsi. I guess i need drivers for it so is searched the net and came up with nothing  :'(

i need the iomega drivers but can't find them could somebody put them online please or send them to me??

would be great, i want to try does SD banks very badly

I configured the signature CREATOR = XFER and FILETYPE = E2BK for PC files with extension .EII (this has to be done in the options->signature editor of MacDisk - don't forget to SAVE the signature file in MacDisk !)


i've done that but the files are not recognized bij SD (yes i found working drivers for the scsi zip) the extension also stays .EII should that be correct?

i tried it several times, even deinstalled macdisk and run thru it again, tried it with .EII or with EII i saved it and then said register current sig file

wont do the trick i get even somekind of error when i look at the added item:  
.EIIÐð
E2BK
XFER


i'm almost there please some more advise

THX!!!!

this is eating me up, all those soundbanks waiting to discover and SD doesn't see them  ???

i checked everything, when using Macdisk and did the filetype and creator thing, i still see .EII extensions but whe i select it and rightclick it with properties i can see it says :

(the filename).EII
Filetype E2BK
Creater XFER

but SD doesn't see them  :'(

also i bought a cable between MAC and EII wich was already fabricated with a din-8 and sub 25 connector can i assume that this cable is already EII prepared?

Strange...

Maybe a silly question but I assume you correctly specified "EII" as the PC extension in MacDisk and not ".EII" (with the dot) ?
And I also assume you are using a Mac formatted ZIP disk ?

Note that there are also some tools for the Mac itself which allow to change the signature... But MacDisk never caused problems with my setup.

///E-Synthesist

yes i changed it without the . (dot)

i formated the zip with macdisk. then i simply copy sounds from a folder on my PC all with extensions .EII

i configured Macdisk like you told me to, i open the zip in the MAC i can see the sounds also there with the .EII extension, i open SD and select open, i select the zip and SD sees no files  :'(

the whole day i'm struggling to get it work its frustating  :o

I've just replied to you in the Yahoo forum (I presume it's you) and will repeat that I thought the initial open command related to opening a sample (?), not a sample bank. Try changing into Panel mode and then the 'send bank' command to see if it sees the EII banks on your Mac.

Hi JMP

waht you are saying sounds logical, perhaps SD sees only one sample at a time instead of a whole bank.

I'm going to try to send the bank, keep you posted

THXXXXXXXXXXX

hmmm. the mac can't communicate with the EII  :-\

i have a 2.1 mainboot prom and 3.1 OS  maybe ihave to mod my RS port?  or configure a cable?

i found a already fabricated cable with din9 and D25 connector, could it be that the pins are wrong for use with EII?

I didn't think of that :)
But it's true of course: the EII bank files are ONLY recognized by SoundDesigner in the "send bank" function, not in the Open or Mac->EII functions. These ones are indeed searching for single sample files.

OS and rom versions are OK.
You are using a fabricated cable ??
I don't know where you found it, but the cable for use between Mac and EII is very specific and unique !
They must have been custom built for that purpose.
Rob at emulatorarchive is selling them, and the pin layouts for wiring minidin8 to DB25 are explained on his website and on the Yahoo group. So you can easily check if your cable is wired correctly with a multi/resistance meter.

BTW: I assume you meant minidin8 instead of din9 ?

You could of course be less lucky and have a faulty RS board (mine was !)
Or even have a Rev 0 board which has not been upgraded to RS422 yet...

///E-Synthesist

super, thanks again for helping out :)

yes i ment mini Din8, and yes i found such a cable here at a pawn shop, i was ofcourse thrilled to actualy got one, but i assume it doesn't work. I already mailed Rob from the emuarchive to buy such a cable.

So only the replacemnet of the Zytrex IC (wich is coming i this week) should repair my faulty output channels. And hopefully the new cable will communicate smoothly between the MAC and EII. I can't wait to get my fingers on all those soundbanks  :D

Ofcourse i will post the results

THX again, great forum too !

Don't make any modifications inside your EII until you have the correct cable from Rob at Emu Archive and ensure:

i) You connect the cable before switching on either the EII or Mac.
ii) You connect the cable to the Modem serial port of the Mac.
iii) Ensure that Modem port is selected in Sound Designer setup.
iv) Boot your EII with an OS 3.1 disk then switch SD mode to 'panel' and 'send bank'.... then fingers crossed.

I've used a Mac SE with my EII and had no problems. If it still doesn't work I suspect it may be something with your EII...

maybe in addition to JMPs advice:

v) (if your Mac OS has this option:) switch between Appletalk ON and OFF on your Mac.

This is also a common problem. Whether it should be ON or OFF depends - there's no clear explanation for it.

Lennox,

HAVE YOU CHECKED

- if you either have a Rev 1 digital board inside your EII
- OR a rev 0 digital board with added RS interface

If not either one -

FORGET ABOUT IT.

yes i have the REV 1 board installed model:6050  serial 1878

should be ok i guess

i received the cable from Rob today. I hooked it up the modem port, started SD then powered on the emulator, selected eII front panel in SD and clicked send bank...........

can't communicate with EII  :'(  :'(  :'(  :'(  :'(

i tried several things, appletalk on and off, restarted everything, checked if midi was on in the EMU nothing yet.

What could be wrong, please help

Near the conncetor of the EII, inside, there are circuits named 4088 and 4089

They are the comm circuits. They must be toasted. Change them, they cost peanuts.

If you don't feel sure, make a picture of the circuitry around, a CLEAR AND NEAT picture (not a thumbnail at 72 dpi), and send it here, I will show you wich ones, because sometimes, tehy put equivalent circuits. For example, the Cmos circuits 4016 are pin to pin the same as 4066, the 4528 is the same as the 4098, etc ...

thanks, i'm going to open it up and let you know

Hi Dr. C

i can't find them, here are some pictures (i hope there clear enough)

(http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/5436/emu1.jpg)
(http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/7529/emu2.jpg)
(http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/2092/emu3.jpg)

(http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/4154/emu5.jpg)

(http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/9219/emu6.jpg)


(http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/9634/emu7.jpg)

thanks, i hope you can point them out

I trust you selected modem as the communication port within Sound Designer..? (Calibrate > Serial Port > Modem)

yes i did, also tried the printer port

I look at the diagrams, what is your board revision ?

it is rev.1
model 6050
serial 1878

According to the schematics, its IC108 (1489) et IC139 (4088).

Please try to find them and make a picture of each with what is around.

Sorry, but this is for YOU, its just to be sure at a 100% !

Even if we change them for nothing, THEY WILL die, soon or late, these circuits ALWAYS do, and they are standard ones, you find them anywhere there are connectors leading to to external world, like printers, modems, etc...

first of all thanks for helping !

i located IC108 and IC139, the strange thing is that the IC139 socket is empty in my EMU, i noticed this earlier when i just purchased it and i looked in the forum and found out that this among a few other empty sockets is normal. But perhaps i'm mistaking?

here are the pictures, i marked IC108 with a green dot straight above and the other picture has a green dot on the empty ic139 socket
(http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/3425/emuic108.jpg)
(http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/5018/emuic139.jpg)

thanks again

Damn... there is nothing, at R139 !!!!

What is written on the circuit IC108, the picture is saturated, unreadable.

this is written on IC108 top and bottom

I8348A+
DS26LS32CN

What do you mean by "top and bottom" ?

Gonna sleep, its 23:20 here.

Seya tomorrow

Okay, I had a doubt, but this circuit is OK (see attached doc)
I have to find the other one...

Hi,

As you can see, the 26LS32 and 26LS31 (attached) are complementary. One is ti SEND datas, the other one is to RECEIVE datas
The reason of the use of these circuits is simple : they change a +5 v signal to 12V (for example) and makes it balanced. At the end, the other decodes it.
It allows to send over capicitive cables and long distance. You can use it for MIDI, for example !!!

I've got the E2 diagram, but its rev 0, I don't have the modification diagram for Rev 1 !!!

Let me check !

thanks for your effort, i appreciate your help  ;)

Can you please dissassemble the wire you bought on the Emu side (not the emu connector, the one of the cable, note the pin numbers and send this here ? I want to trace this on the diagram.

My first Emulator II's RS422 also didn't work after I bought it.
Mine is a Rev 0 machine, so it had the additional board to add RS422 support instead of the original RS232.
This board is also based on the 26LS31 driver chip and 26LS32 receiver chip.

The problem was solved by replacing the driver (26LS31). This is a commonly available IC and it's very cheap.
My tech guy said that both ICs are not protected for electrostatic pulses on the DB25 connector's pins, so they can fail easily.

Just for your information, and for what it's worth: at that time I compared voltages on the DB25 connector pins between my bad EII and a good working EII. Here are the voltages of the GOOD working port (these are simple DC voltage measurements done with a multimeter)

* Measurement when EII is connected to the Mac (but not transferring data):
  - pin 11 (TXD+): +4.0 V
  - pin  3 (TXD-): +0.15 V
  - pin 10 (RXD+) +4.20 V
  - pin  2 (RXD-): -4.20 V
  (FYI: the BAD EII gave +0.12 V on pin 11 and +3.91 V on pin 3 - the other voltages where the same)
 
* Measurement when EII is not connected to the Mac:
  - pin 11 (TXD+): +4.5 V
  - pin  3 (TXD-): +0.15 V
  - pin 10 (RXD+) +3.50 V
  - pin  2 (RXD-): +1.40 V

I hope this helps.

///E-Synthesist

hi guys, i can't thank you enough for helping!

i located the other IC

IC108 is the receiver DS26LS32CN
IC132 is the Transmitter AM26LS31PC

perhaps its best to swapthese for new ones and see what happens, i hope to do this tomorrow

i keep you posted  :)

Exactly, this is what I wrote previously :

I can add that 26LS32 and 31 are National Semiconductors pin to pin replacement circuits to Motorola 4088 and 4089.

i found a shop nearbye exept that they don't have the exact matching type for the AM26LS31PC
they have some others with different end letters hmmm. i'm not sure wich one to take

here is the link to there website with different types wich one should be suiteble?

http://nl.farnell.com/jsp/search/browse.jsp?N=500012+1004477&Ntk=gensearch_001&Ntt=26ls31&Ntx=

thanks  ;)

This guy should change his job, sell frankfurters, for example.

These letters indicate the package and as well, the temperatures, look at the documentations !!!!

you are right about that he must change his job, he didn't bother to search for a matching type.

Good news is i found them at another store, they have the AM26LS31PC in stock the other type DS26LS32ACN (matching type i found out in the document you send) as well, should receive them tomorrow

I hope it works, i let you know

Suffix PC stands for Plastic and Consumer, so not very good, if you can have CN for both Ceramic  and -55°C till +125C°, it would be better.

 >:(  installed the new ic's today and still can't communicate, this is getting on my nerves  :'(

does anybody have other suggestions?

can you try another Mac ? Or this mac on another E2 ? Another cable ? I do'nt know, I am not in front of the machine and even tough, I wonder...

I feel sorry not to be of any more help, but I would start from scratch and check everything.

First, take the damn Computer and cable and go to your friend to validate it.

After then, you can be sure it comes from the E-Mu.

Where are you located Lennox?

thanks dr.C i will try to check everything

@JMP

i'm located in Holland living near Amsterdam

i did some measurements according to my emu db25 connector i get other measurments, these are with the new ic's installed and the emu not connect to the MAC

all are +

pin1 = 1.26
pin2 = 3.27
pin3 = 3.26
pin4 = 3.33
pin5 = 0.27
pin7 = 0.28
pin8 = 3.24
pin11 = 0.50
pin12 = 0.80
pin13 = 0.28
pin20 = 1.26

all the other pins not mentioned have 0.00

I swapped the old ic's back in and they differnot that much, the highest voltage is 3.33 the lowest 0.28

looking at your table there must be something wrong with mine  :'(

wait a minute i think i mirrored the pin voltages

these measurements were done looking straight at the DB25 connector on the back of the EMU and measuring from left to right..

so it should be according to Esynthesist tabel

* Measurement when EII is not connected to the Mac:
  - pin 11 (TXD+): +4.5 V
  - pin  3 (TXD-): +0.15 V
  - pin 10 (RXD+) +3.50 V
  - pin  2 (RXD-): +1.40 V


My EMU gives the following measurements:

 Measurement when EII is not connected to the Mac:
  - pin 11 (TXD+): +3.27 V
  - pin  3 (TXD-): +0.50 V
  - pin 10 (RXD+) +3.26 V
  - pin  2 (RXD-): +0.80 V

Hmmm... could it be that the new IC's are wrong??   i mean can i measure the pins on the IC itself?


Update: i ordered new IC's wich were mentioned in a txt file for making a RSS422 digital board

*1x AM26LS32PC (quad line receiver IC)  "IC2"
*1x AM26LS31PC (quad line driver IC)  "IC1"

let's hope and pray these guys do the job :)

Lets hope....

got the new ic's today, installed them and still nothing  :'(  i've read somewhere that some rev 1 boards still need some kind of modification. Something to do with bending a pin on one of the ic's.

I'm going to look into it tomorrow, i'm gono cry myself to sleep now

any ideas or tips are appreciated, i feel so close to the solution...

I think the document you may be referring to is here, titled SD for EII troubleshooting (top right corner):

http://www.emulatorarchive.com/Archives/Samplers/E2Overview/E2SD/e2sd.html  

thx JMP

i tried the pin bend but still no luck. I stopped further experimenting because i feel that my EII is already configured OK.

I use a MAC SE30 with 7.1 OS, 8 MB mem and 20MB HD, scsi zip, should or could it have something to do with the Memory cache settings?

Could someone measure his DB25 pin voltages when not connecting to a MAC and also the pin voltages when only the 8 din is connected and the DB25 not (but ofcourse powerd up) so i can close things out, is it the EII or the MAC

THANKS in advance

oh and i found some technical stuff on how to make your own RS422 board. The parts mentioned (about 10) are already in mine. Should i search for any broken parts here or is it possible to bypass my RS422 and make a new RS422 board?

Have you tried a different Mac or tested that cable yet? That would be my next course of action before I did anything more to the EII itself.   

7.1 !!!!!!!  Use 6.5 !!!!!!

YES MAN!!! Do what the doctor says!! NOW!  >:(

My Mac Classic is running 7.5.3 and it works just fine with the EII.
My Mac SE/30 however is running 6.1, which also works, but I haven't tried OS 7 on the SE with my EII yet.
I have some more vintage Macs here (I bought a whole batch), if I don't know what to do anymore I might boot them and check their OS and whether they are compatible with the EII.

Anyway, before even downgrading your SE OS, I would really recommend to test with another Mac first.
Because installing another OS on a Mac is not a pleasure (I did it once, I still have a confused Mac Powerbook  ;) )

///E-Synthesist

THX guys,

i will indeed try another mac, i got my eye on 2 mac one classic the other a classic II in my neigborhood, hope to get them tomorrow

i will let you know the results

got the other MAC's yesterday evening, it was getting late i tried only once with one of the two and gave a "Cant communicate with EII" window  :(  i have to look into it closer keeping in mind that my EII has a faulty RS422.

I saw something about better data integrity by soldering a resistor somewhere, about getting +5v ???

going to look into that too, i'm not giving up  ;D

no luck with the other macs as well  :'(

maybe the cable is not working right, should the connector be a little loose on the EII?  because i cannot screw the connector on with the two screws

Or indeed my EII needs to be checked in the RS422 circuit

oh and how should i know what pin 1 is from say AM26LS31 chip when looking at the top sitting in the emu IC socket, should pin 1 be the left top and pin 2 be the right top, pin 3 directly under pin 1?

An excellent link :

http://www.datasheetcatalog.com/ (http://www.datasheetcatalog.com/)

You can get thousands of specs there !

Attached, the AM26LS31.pdf

okm i checked for the RS422 mods on my REV 1, there all done, exept i don't understand one thing, IC107 pin 22 needs a resistor and at the other side +5v

if i measure pin 22 without having done this i get a 0.48 v  if my REV1 should be mod correctly of fabric, should this be any near +5v instead of this 0.48?

at the schematic i see at pin 17 a resistor drwan and +5v, if i measure there i get 3.48v max. Is this correct? could it be that this scn2651 is mailfunctioning, can i replace it just like that or do i need something else?

I.m going to master this, my EII will work with a MAC  ;D

Please check the print screen i took, with leftside the schematic of IC107 and right the REV.1 check

Thanks!

no one?

perhaps dr.C  ;D

perhaps i better take it to a tech  :-\

This is what we call a pull-up resistor.

You should try to repace as well the scn2651

thanks, i will replace scn2651, just found one on ebay. It says programmable ic, i hope i don't have to program it do i?

i meen can i simply swap this ic?

thanks

No way ! It won't work if you don't program it !

I didn't look at the specs. Are you sure that all the circuits are in place ?

I saw some empty sockets on the pictures you sent me...

ok i have a spare scn2651 now  ;D

yes there are 4 empty sockets i mentiond it in one of my first posts, IC134, IC149, IC139 and IC151 are empty.

I dont no where i found it but i thought these supposed to be empty. Perhaps i'm mistaking???

thanks again

Are these empty sockets corresponding to some circuits on the RS422 Diagram ?

This because you bought this machine secon,d hand uh ? I never trust these machines in second hand.

no nothing is mentioned in the diagrams, these where supposed to be unused i think.

But i give up, no not the Emulator  ;D  but i'm bringing it to a real tech. I will post the results should take a few weeks i think

if you just want access to the libraries without being able to edit the banks TOO much, I suppose you to buy an oberheim dpx-1 (preferrably OS 2.1 or 2.2) - pretty cheap and tank-solid. using a windows XP pc with an installed 3.5" disk drive and e-synthesists DPX tools (free and simple), you can easily copy all those beautyful banks to floppies and play them WITHOUT any loss in analogue quality to play them with the dpx. works fantastic - that's the way a buddy of mine does it.
I have already done the "translation" of all those banks to dpx file format some time ago (LOTS and LOTS of banks).

if you're interested, let me know.

P.S. the dpx is a rack mounted EII so to speak, if you're not already familiar with it. It sounds ABSOLUTELY the same (if not better) as the EII, using the same ssm chips (but in combination with 12bit internal processing). It was manufactured to offer a light weighted device that can play EII banks without quality loss, or alteration - to professional artist going on tour for example.

I guess you have no choice nowadays but buying these beasts second hand, do ya?!

 ;) :D ;D

Thanks!  i indeed thought about the Oberheim, and will get one if it just wont work, but it has to :-)

i love the idea of palying and editi it right from the EII, i guess i´m in the mood beacuse i just bought a SP12 Turbo  ;)

Tank-solid... I thought so too, but I just bought a second one and it exploded after 2 minutes of operation in my studio  :-\
So now I have only one DPX-1 again  ;D
And I lost 150 EUR in 2 minutes...
...well, some people probably lost a lot more money in even far smaller timeframes on the stock exchange...

Lennox, you might bring your EII to Boemstjak in Castricum/Alkmaar. He repaired my RS422 a few years ago.

aha i know this guy, thanks for the tip, i will contact him

thanks for the tip ;)

hey welcome to the club  ;)! brilliant box!

@e-synthesist: what exploded?! omg! :o

The power supply I guess. The noise and smoke came from that corner of the unit.
Probably a capacitor.
I didn't open the unit yet (the screws are also "dead") but I hope no damage has been done to the actual electronic circuits...
The guy who sold it to me said he is willing to repair it or exchange it with another DPX... We'll see. Sending the unit over to him and back will cost at least half of the price of this DPX.

dammit. did you buy it just for fun - or are you planning on NEW SCIENTIFICAL EXPERIMENTS ?!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D