E-mu Emulator Sampler User Forum for the EIII EII EI and EIII XP

My Emulator III just came home from my technician, and unfortunately, he seems to have missed a problem involving two of the voices. When I play back a mono sample, it appears in the main left/right outputs on all but voices 9 and 10. On voice 9, it only appears in the left output, and on voice 10, it only appears in the right output.

I also checked to see if voices 9 and 10 appear at their respective individual outputs, and they do.

I'd like to see if I can fix this myself before I haul this back to my tech and ask him to look at it again. Does anyone have advice on where to start?

Does someone have the diagram of the output board ? I have one, but its not clear. Or even better, the whole manual I can download somewhere...

Okay... what you can do is to unplug these cables (see picture) and put them back, and try.
Never intervert cables, wich is to say, put tha "A" cable at the "B" location, for example.

Otherways, it can be damaged jack plugs, or damaged resistor packs. I need to have the diagram, I have one, but its crappy.

Thanks Dr. C, I will certainly try this. Just to confirm, I want to unplug and re-connect the four ribbon cables labeled A, B, C and D, right? I presume that the larger ribbon cable to the left is for the SCSI and RS-422 connections.

Exactly.

I make a drawing for you

You may loose channels if you moove the flat cable according to the arrows. If this happens, forget avout averything.

Go to a Radio-Shack shop, buy 10 x 20 pin connectors, 10 x 20 conductor flat cable in sufficient lenght, a special plier for these connectors and, if needed, redo all the four cables.
Imagine that the audio goes thru these non shielded cables.. incredible...

The "A" cable provides as well the +5V to the jack board, so, be carefull, do not mix.

Think, observe how this is done, re observe, take pictures, verify what you do, verify your verification, be a kind of nazi for this, don't even trust yourself neither your mother, verify, in cause of the slightest doubt, redisassemble or forget it.

Take notes, especially to where goes tha "A" cable on the other side, for example... uh ? ;D

What a jerk, I forgot the drawing I did for you

Hi Dr C

...check your PB box...

///E-Synthesist

Thanks for the manual !

According to diagram, it can be RN12 and RN4 wich are resistor packs on the jack board, page 159/189.

Maybe RN12 tough... its a 470 Ohms, 2%.

I would find this VERY SUSPICIOUS that BOTH resistor packs would be faulty. One, maybe, but two... I have NEVER had any faulty ones and I fixed HUNDREDS (no exageration) of EIII's or the same ones but all toghether, hundred of times  ;) )

Are you SURE you have the signal on the separated outputs ? Sorry, I doin't think you are an idiot, but this is really strange. If the signal is there on the separated outputs, the flat cables are okay !

This is a mystery....

Yes, I'm quite sure I have the signal on outputs 9 and 10. In fact, I created two demonstration audio files so everyone can hear what I'm hearing.

The source sample in both recordings is mono (I only used the left channel in sampling mode.) I sampled this in new, today... it is not loaded off a disk or taken from an "unknown" source.

http://www.hypefactor.com/files/eiii/

In the first audio file (stereo_e3.aif), I play the same key (G1) 16 times in a row to demonstrate the performance of each voice. The left channel you hear is the left/stereo mix output of the EIII, and the right channel is the right/mono mix output. On the 9th keystroke, you can clearly hear the right channel drop out. On the 10th keystroke, you can hear the left channel drop out. I also noticed that keystrokes 12 and 13 produced a slightly lower volume level than all other keystrokes. Could this be a similar/related problem?

In the second audio file (indiv_e3.aif), I play the same key (G1) 16 times in a row again. But after every two keystrokes I switched my quarter inch cables to the next pair of individual outputs, so the first two keystrokes you hear are coming from individual outs 1 and 2, the next two keystrokes from 3 and 4, etc. As you can hear, every individual output produces a sound when it should. I did notice once again that individual outs 12 and 13 seemed to produce a slightly lower volume level than all other outputs.

Thanks everyone! Your help here is very much appreciated.

Ahhhhh..... this is very different !

Do you have the original software (operating system) diskette delivered with the machine, or maybe, a software diskette you may have made BEFORE the problem occured ?

If not, you are going to need the UST disquette (Universal Sound Test) the instructions (in the manual) and a scope or maybe a console wich has a LARGE (long, I mean) bargraph to see the signal level with the most accurate way.

First : have you got the software diskette, or not ? This woul make us save a lot of time.

The reason : the Filters, VCAs, etc... adjustments are in the software. If someone mùessed with the adjustments, they are lost, unless you have a copy of the non messed-up software on a diskette.

If you have it, put it into the machine, power it ans let it boot with the diskette.
After then, go to "copy software" and copy the software from the diskette to the disk. Do not make a mistake !

After then, shut the machine down, take the floppy away, restart your machine, and it will start with the correct software wich contain the correct adjustments.

Unfortunately, no, I do not have the original software system diskette. I purchased this machine second hand, and it did not come with any disks. The only software on the machine is stored on the internal hard drive.

Does someone on the forum have a copy they would be willing to sell me? I don't want to purchase one from Route 66 given the things I've heard about their customer service.

Dr. C: Are the problems with voices 9 and 10 also a result of the software? I'm not quite clear.

Thank you!

It is totally USELESS to buy a software diskette ! (Unless you don't have a copy and your disk is dead).

READ ATTENTIVELY, PLEASE :

The ADJUSTMENTS of the machine (calibrations) are embedded into the software.

This means that if someone makes you a software cpopy from HIS machine, and you dump this software into YOUR machine, your machine will have HIS calibrations ! The calibrations of youir machine will be gone forever !

The channel boards are the two lowest ones. If you swap them, the calibrations of channels 1-8 will apply to 9-16 and 9-16 to 1-8.

What you need is an UST diskette (Universal Sound Test) wich will allow you to calibrate your machine. Patience, and an oscilloscope.

After then, retard your machine and you just make a copy of your newly calibrated software into two floppies in wich you write your machine serial number and the date and software version on the sticker.

THE CALIBRATIONS ARE LOADED FROM THE FIRST BOOT UNIT

This means that if you start your machine with the disk and copy a new software from a floppy, ONLY THE SOFTWARE WILL BE COPIED, NOT THE CALIBRATIONS ! You will not erase the calibrtations !

Now : if you start your machine with the floppy and copy the software to the disk, you will put the calibrations of the floppy into the disk, and CRASH the previous calibrations.

When I was fixing machines, the first thing I did was to make a software copy on  floppy.
Once I finished the repair, I recalibrated the machine, shut the machine down, retart the machine and made copy of the sofware on a floppy wich I back to the client, telling him to KEEP this and bring it back the next time and as well another one for me (as an archive) because I knew that this idiot would NEVER bring the floppy I made for him.

When it comes to gain problems etc... the first point is to recalibrate the machine in order to assume that the machine is REALLY having a problem and not having a crappy calibration.

This is what you have to do, first, finding an UST diskette..

Here is an untouched copy of the O.S. 2.42

I can't believe it... I am sorry... but am I dealing with a bunch of idiots, or what ?

I am spendinh hours to explain here that there are NO "UNTOUCHED" copies of software, EVERY ones are different by the adjusments made in factory, because, every machines are different, by the tolerances of their components, for example !!!!

Its a nivce intention of yours, but it is totally useless ! Please re-read what I wrote previously.
Yes, a software can eventually, even if its not the specifica machine one, be helpfull, but still, the levels will be wrong, as well as the "Q" of the filters, etc....

Hi Dr. C... thanks for the help. Sorry if I'm being obtuse, but I have a few more questions because I want to make sure I understand everything clearly before I proceed.

I'm in the process of tracking down the Universal Sound Test disk. I found the disk image that David/DVDBorn posted here a while back, but I don't own a Windows computer, so I need to find a way to burn the disk image.

Once I have the UST, is the procedure I need to follow described in the EIII service manual? Rokuez sent this to me a while back when I originally bought the machine. After I've calibrated the machine, I restart and then copy the OS 2.42 from my hard disk to two floppy disks, correct?

Lastly, just to confirm, the problems with voices 9 and 10 may be the result of a calibration problem and not a hardware problem? It wasn't clear from your previous post.

Thank you! And again, sorry for all the questions!

Hi Dr. C... thanks for the help. Sorry if I'm being obtuse, but I have a few more questions because I want to make sure I understand everything clearly before I proceed.
I'm in the process of tracking down the Universal Sound Test disk. I found the disk image that David/DVDBorn posted here a while back, but I don't own a Windows computer, so I need to find a way to burn the disk image.

Forget it ! Useless !


Once I have the UST, is the procedure I need to follow described in the EIII service manual? Rokuez sent this to me a while back when I originally bought the machine. After I've calibrated the machine, I restart and then copy the OS 2.42 from my hard disk to two floppy disks, correct?

Absolutely correct !

Lastly, just to confirm, the problems with voices 9 and 10 may be the result of a calibration problem and not a hardware problem? It wasn't clear from your previous post.

Exactly ! Anyway, you will have to recalibrate the machine if you have to fix the output boards.


Thank you! And again, sorry for all the questions!

No problemo, mate !!! ;)

Curious if you were able to fix this, because I have the exact same issue on my EIII.

A bit more information about my EIII's problem. When playing stereo samples, everything is fine. The notes play out of the individual outputs in stereo. But when playing mono samples, they don't play properly out the stereo outs. For voice 6, 11, and 15, the voices only come out one half of the stereo mix. The other thing that's strange is when I plug in a cable to the mono mix output on the back, I don't get any sound. But if I plug into the other output, I get sound. And when both are plugged in, the mono output works. If I put a cable in the individual mono output that isn't sounding, and apply a bit of pressure, occasionally it fixes it for that output.

I removed the nuts on the back of the synth and removed the board. I touched up some solder joints that looked a bit flakey, but still not working. I'm curious if this could be a resistor pack or cold solder joint issue. I doubt it's software calibration. Any thoughts?

as you described, maybe the contacts of the individual output-plugs are bad. i think the problem depends not on bad soldering points or resitstors , maybe bad working lifts of the jack plugs (oxydation etc) - try to clean

I cleaned them. Still no luck. I was hoping to send my jack board to a friend to connect the ABCD cables to it to see if he could replicate the issue, but he's unwilling to open up his EIII for fear something will break on it. Anyone willing to do this for me? Anyone have the EIII technical manual or schematics so I can attempt to figure out what's wrong?

No, I never resolved this issue (although that has more to do with a lack of persistence on my part than anything else.)

When you play a basic mono sample on the Emulator III, each time you press a key, it cycles to a new voice. So key press one triggers voice one, key press two triggers voice two, etc. Stereo samples and samples that overlap (like a sample with a long sustain/release phase) allocate voices in a less obvious way, but the general premise is still the same.

On my unit, a mono sample plays correctly out of all 16 1/4" individual voice outputs. When monitoring out of the stereo mix outputs, however, voice 9 only sounds out of the left stereo mix output, and voice 10 only sounds out of the right stereo mix output. All the other voices sound out of both the left and right stereo mix outputs.

Disabling voices 9 and 10 eliminates this problem.

At least yours are combined in one stereo voice. For me it's voice 6, 11, and 15. I have to disable 3 stereo pairs. When I plug a single lead into the stereo mono output, I get no signal. And the stereo signal doesn't seem to be spot on. One side is a bit louder than the other.

I believe it is an issue with the analog jack board. Would be nice if I could send the jack board to someone who could put it in their machine and see if the problem persists. One thing I thought about doing is desoldering a jack with a problem output, and replacing it with a jack from a good output....see if the problem follows the jack.

Just to confirm, you definitely hear voices 6, 11 and 15 at the corresponding individual voice outputs, right?

The stereo signal not being "spot on" might have something to do with the voice calibration. Being that the VCF/VCA on each voice is analog, and the components change over time, they may need to be calibrated. To calibrate, you need a.) the service manual; b.) an oscilloscope; and c.) the Universal Sound Test bank. I can upload this in an EMXP-compatible format if you need it.

Stereo samples:

1) All voices sound out the stereo outputs if both jacks connected (but nothing comes out the mono jack if only one cable connected)
2) All voices sound out the individual outputs

Mono samples:

1) All voices sound out of individual outputs if both jacks connected (but nothing comes out the mono jack if only one cable connected)
2) For voice 6, 11, 15, voices only work on side of the stereo output (and it alternates)

Ok, I got it working!!!

Here's what I did:

1) Read another posting by Dr. C talking about calibration issues often result in stereo problems. So I saved two copies of my internal software to floppy disc as he recommended.
2) I went into diagnostic mode (Master > 8, 0, then 1, 3, 5, 8) and went through a full auto-volume calibration, then VCF, then Q. After this, I saved the trim settings to my harddrive.
3) What I noticed was two of the voices were now resolved, #11 and 15, while #6 remained an issue.
4) In calibration mode, I went and disabled all but that voice and repeatedly tried to calibrate it. No luck.
5) Sprayed some cleaner in jack 6. Still no luck. Opened up the unit and removed the jack board. Checked for breaks. Still no luck.
5) Rebooted the machine. This is where it gets strange. #6 was now resolved, and 11 and 15 were back to being an issue.
6) I noticed that there was some staticky noise in the stereo jack. Moved the cables somewhat. Still not fixed. So I put some cables back and forth in jacks 11 and 15. Heard some more staticky noise. All of a sudden #11 and 15 started working

As of now they all work. But I think this was a combination of several problems: 1) stuck switches in the jacks 2) calibration issues.

The fact that it's firing on all cylinders now tells me this is a resolvable issue. Very happy!!! Hopefully the above can help others resolve a similar issue.

cool!
congratulations!!!

Thanks! It's not 100% yet. I went back down and #11 wasn't working again. So I inserted a jack again in the individual output and moved it in and out and the voice came back. I still don't have any output out of the mono stereo jack (R). Not sure what the issue could be there. Any idea?

Wow, it never ends with this machine. This morning the harddrive wouldn't boot up from SCSI for the longest time, then once it did, it wouldn't load the samples. Fortunately I backed up the software to floppy and the sounds to ZIP disk yesterday. Anyone have a recommended harddrive for this unit? Or should I install the CF mod? Would be nice to have a quiet synth without a harddrive.

Very helpfull stories in advance for i have picked up two beautifull looking iii' 's. One habijt only output at 9 & 10.  ;)

I recently had a very misbehaving Eiii keyboard that had same issues on 5 channels.

Sometimes you can clean the jack contacts with MG Chemicals "401B Nu-TROL"  contact cleaner.  Try this before you replace the jacks

The next thing is to remove the analog jack board and replacing the jacks as warranted, they have a mechanical lifespan and once they get too old, and "unsprung" it warrants replacement.

In this situation I had plenty of brand new jacks on hand, so  removed the jacks from the failing channels, and replaced them with new jacks.

This resolved the issue.  It had nothing to do with the calibration of the machine.
But that is not to discount that improper calibration can cause similar issues. It is worth looking if you are facing similar issues with your machine, look to the jacks first.

Happy emulating!