E-mu Emulator Sampler User Forum for the EIII EII EI and EIII XP

The last couple of years I blogged about my EIII at http://dvdborn.blogspot.com (http://dvdborn.blogspot.com). I'll now post these blog posts here on the forum so that other users can contribute to them.

Some time ago the internal Hard Drive decided it was time to meet its maker. It was still the original 40MB from 1987. The EIII needs its internal HD to operate. You can boot the machine with a OS floppy disk but the OS still requires a HD to be present on the internal SCSI cable.

Googling for a replacement drive only the Seagate ST51080N is mentioned on EIII related pages and forums. A 1GB SCSI drive that is still being sold for $225.

So I started going through all my spare SCSI drives and here's a list of EIII compatible HD's:

Quantum Trailblazer
IBM WDS-L80 (80MB) - As found in the Apple II si
Quantum ProDrive LT 700MB SCSI - As found in the PowerMac PPC6100
Quantum Maverick ProDrive - As found in PowerMac PPC8500

To format the HD I used the standard interleave setting of 2:1.

It took about 2 hours to get the Quantum Maverick HD formatted and verified. It is essential that you don't abort the verification process (like I did at first). When you do so, you won't be able to copy the OS onto the HD. If you try so, you'll get the Error: "Bank does not exists!".

I also tried more recent SCSI Hard Disk models but they don't get recognized by the EIII. If anyone knows why please let me know.


Attached is a picture of the internal HD.

Hi


I just wanted to notify that www.gebrauchtpc.de has Seagate ST51080N Drives on Stock.


http://www.gebrauchtpc.de/ItemSearch.aspx?se=ST51080N


They are just 3 Euro a piece  :)



Greets

Hi dvdborn and Chris Raw,
I know I've told you that I have installed a compact flash card (1GB) internally in my EIII rack on your bloggsite, but I guess I can repeat it here too. the solution is valid with all samplers/synthesizers/computers that use old SCSI I type of harddrives.

Here's some pictures about the solution and parts you need:

I couldn't attach the last picture to my last message (too big) but here it is (the most important piece of it all SCSI->IDE adapter):

Hi Escobar,

That's a brilliant solution!
I'm definitely going to try it out.

Can you tell us where you bought the CF card adapter? Is there any specific type/model that we should buy?

Did you have to use a special interleave setting to format the Flash card or did everything work without a problem?

Many thanks for the info.
David

Go to www.ebay.com (http://www.ebay.com) and type 'CF adapter' in the 'search' box. I just saw an adapter for $0.29 US from San Francisco by L&S-INC Store. you will find several seller there. I bought mine from Hong Kong. It cost more to ship it than the adapter it self. You can find the SCSI->IDE adapter at www.acard.com or at www.vesalia.de, or on eBay too.

Addendum: You need the 40-pin version and NOT the 44-pin that's used by laptops.
Addendum2: The SCSI to IDE bridge adapter is model: AEC-7720U if anyone is wondering. Forgot to tell.


Good luck,

Marko

I forgot to tell you:
First time you boot everything up it might be that EIII won't find the CF card, if that's the case you need to turn the power off and remove the jumpers from the SCSI->IDE adapter, boot EIII again, and then turn the power off. Replace the jumpers and turn on the power again. I had to do this before EIII could find the card but it eventually did.

I don't remember exactly which jumper I had to pull out, but there's only two of them so just try it out.

Addendum:
There are some CF card adapters that can handle two CF cards, but that solution doesn't work with the SCSI -> IDE adapter (I tried) so you can only use single CF card adapters. If you need more units you have to install another SCSI->IDE adapter and you need a 50-pin flatribbon SCSI cable with three or more connection sockets.
I've tried this solution on the Kurzweil K2000 keyboard and it found it instantly without any problems.

Thanks Escobar for the info. I'll look for that also.

The drive in my keyboard is a 240mb Quantum ProDrive LPS.

Here's some extra info for anyone who is going to replace his hard drive with a CF-card.

Don't use fast (>9MB/s) CF-cards like the SanDisk Ultra II. They are not compatible with this solution.

I tried it and they don't work. I had no problem using older, first generation CF-cards.

David

Hi
I can confirm that this works with the E3XP.  I have a 1gb cf card in mine using the same set up.  It works beautifully, boots quietly and quickly and loads new banks in no time.
Recommended.
Midi.mad

Can anyone point me to an online store (preferably in Europe) where I can buy the Twinmos 1GB Ultra-X CF card?

I've tried 6 different CF cards and only one of them (a 64MB card) works with the CF-card solution. I want to be sure that the next 1GB CF card that I buy will work with the EIII.

David

I bought mine from www.komplett.se (swedish web-store). You can go to www.komplett.com or www.komplett.be (since you're from Belgium chose the last one  ;) ). Write TwinMOS in the search box and voíla you got it! Hmm... I just noticed that they got the 1GB version out of stock (Belgium site). But there are the 2GB version. On the swedish website they will receive new stock TwinMOS X140 1GB on april 18th at €10.

Hope it helps,

Escobar


Addendum: If you can't find the card I do have one I can spare. Let me know David.

Hello Escobar

Can you confirm that the TwinMos 2gb card works, will the EIII even allow you to use 2gb's????

I am also looking for this card, found them in the US but the guy won't deliver to UK, if you know anywhere else let me know cheers, Karl....

Hello Karlscott,

I haven't test the 2GB version so I can't tell if it works or not but the 1GB does. EIII OS system can only handle drives up to 1GB so best case senario for 2GB cards would be that you can only use half of it's memeory capacity.
The only card that I can confirm working with EIII are TwinMOS X140 Ultra-X 1GB card.

The swedish site www.komplett.se sells 1GB cards, but the site is in swedish so it can be hard to order and/or understand.

Update:

Spoke to TwinMos trade supplier in UK and was informed that 1GB cards have now been discontinued.

Found this guy in the US who has them (link below) but will not deliver to UK unless order is over $100 so got a friend over there to buy me one and post it, the guys  got 19 left if any one wants to get there hands on one:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEBTOX:IT&item=130187158075&_trksid=p3984.cTODAY.m238.lVI

what we should also do is if anyone has success with any other cards then they should state it here so we can compile a list.

Anyway hope this helps, Karl....

If there are any greater demand for these cards (TwinMOS X140 1GB) I might buy some from the swedish komplett store and sell them further? Let me know if there are any interest.

/Escobar

Has anyone else installed the SCSI-IDE solution in their EIII?

I did, but I'm not able to format a 1GB card with it. Thanks to Escobar I got a TwinMOS 140x card. It's the same model that works in his setup. But it doesn't in mine.

So, I'd like to know if anyone else has trouble formatting a 1GB card? At the moment I'm only able to format a 64MB card.

My Acard AEC-7720U has firmware version 3.88. I'm guessing that this is the culprit. But I need to know for sure before I try downgrading the firmware.

My EIII has OS 2.42 and firmware v2.00.

David

Hey Escobar

count me in for one of those 1GB Cards too.. I have a CF Card Adapter on the way

It is still the SCSI to IDE Adapter that I'd need..therefore should I be aware of the installed firmware on it?



Greets

I have Acard on the way also as well as two 1gb cards, keep us posted DVDborn!!!!

I will post my firmware version when it comes!!!!

Also another thing, I plugged my floppy drive back in the EIII to copy a few software disks as i had heard you can't boot from the zip drive, and if anything went wrong i'd be F.....d!!!!

I've added pic to see if anyone can tell me if i'm going wrong somewhere....

pulled powerlead off of scsi zip drive and there was a floppy drive attachment lying loose inside EIII so attached that also but my EIII does not pick up floppy...

I know the drive works because i tried it on my emax 1 rack and it was working perfectly any thoughts anyone?????

also what is the name of the powerleads i have to get in "Escobar's" picture i know the one inside the plastic is powerlead splitter which i'm getting but can't find name of other one that is not in the plastic...

The place were i'm getting the splitter from has some thing similar but it's not the same, he also said i will have to check if it's "straight or twisted" whatever that means....

 Thanks in Advance, Karl...

ps: the drive in question i think is the original drive (Mitsubihi MF353BA-12U) I got it with the EIII but have never put it in as it came installed with zip drive.

I also went to master module and tried to the mount drives option but still no joy.

Sorry for slightly hijacking this post but thought i'd ask questions in here as i was referencing one of Escobar's pics, thanks again, Karl....

I'll keep you posted about the Acard firmware.

The other component that could be the reason for not being able to format a 1GB card is the IDE card reader. But since the card reader is a simple component I'm guessing that this won't be the issue.

I got word back from the Acard support departement and they told me that it's possible to downgrade an Acard to the previous firmware version without a problem.

Now I need to know for sure which firmware version works with the TwinMOS card.

BTW, the Acard comes with a power cable splitter. It splits into a smaller power connector and a large power connector. I only had to find a converter from a large to a small connector.

So if anyone else has tried the SCSI-IDE solution let me know if you were able to format a 1GB card.

David

Karl,

You can also boot an EIII from an external hard disk that has the OS on it.

Hope this helps.

David

Thanks DVD

So i can use one of my external scsi zip drives (that i use with my MPC 3000) attached to the back of the EIII and copy software onto one of my zip disks and then it will boot from there?????

If so thanks for the solution, means once i've got my CF card in there (when it comes that is) i won't have to open up the EIII again!!!!

Karl,

I don't know if a ZIP drive will work. Best if you try it first. But I'm guessing that it won't be a problem.
I do know that I can boot from an external hard disk.

It is important that a hard disk or SCSI-IDE converter is connected on the internal SCSI cable. Otherwise the EIII won't boot (if my memory still serves me correct).

David

how do i get EIII to try and boot from zip disk without it starting its normal booting procedure from internal HD????

I'm guessing that the EIII takes the first SCSI ID that's available.
This would mean that the ZIP has SCSI ID = 5 and the internal HD SCSI ID=6

David

Bloody hell, i dont wanna change my scsi id on my internal to scsi id 6 (it's on 1 now) and then put my external zip drive to scsi id 5, if it does not work and i can't get zip to boot up EIII, then how am gonna get to change the internal drive back to scsi id 1 if it won't boot back up????

Don't wanna risk it, i'll wait till it dies on me lol!!!!!!

I'd just test the Zip boot when you've installed the SCSI-IDE card on the internal SCSI cable.
The only way for the EIII to boot in that situation is from the OS on the ZIP drive.
I'm guessing that that will work.

David

Hello everyone,

When I installed my CF-card the first time, EIII couldn't find it at all and/or I got an error message.
The problem is related to the SCSI-IDE adapter, you need to do these three configurations on the SCSI-IDE adapter:

1) Terminator power On/Off  (jumper J4)

2) Terminator Enable/disable  (jumper J2)

3) SCSI ID number setup for the CF-card  (jumper J1 and J3)


You have to locate the different jumper connections on the adapter board. They should be marked out with white text on the adapter board like this: J1/J3 or similar.
To enable a setting put a black plastic knob on that jumper connection (two vertical oriented pins need to be 'closed' using the plastic knob).
To disable a setting you remove the black plastic knob from the pins.

So, enable the terminator power by putting the knob on jumper J4.

Make the terminator enabled by putting a knob on jumper J2 (J2 and J4 should be oriented close to each other on the adapter board).

Now, you need to set the SCSI ID number for your CF-card.
You will find a ROW with four (4) pair of pin connections on the board. The connection at most right will be ignored (have no function as far as I know). From left to right you have connection: 1, 2, 3.
NOTE: all connections are oriented (left to right) as the white text on the adapter board.

Now, depending on which SCSI ID number you want/need for your CF-card, you have to choose one of these settings on the adapter board:

SCSI ID 0 = No knobs on any connections.
SCSI ID 1 = Pin connection 3
SCSI ID 2 = Pin connection 2
SCSI ID 3 = Pin connections 2+3
SCSI ID 4 = Pin connection 1
SCSI ID 5 = Pin connections 1+3
SCSI ID 6 = Pin connections 1+2

IT'S IMPORTANT THAT YOU CAN VERIFY YOUR JUMPER SETTINGS, THIS WILL BE THE MOST PROPABLY CAUSE OF FALIURE SINCE IT'S EASY TO MAKE MISSTAKE ABOUT IT.

So double check your settings!

A graphic description over the pin configurations are shown in the 'manual'  included with the card.

If it still doesn't find the card, turn off the power and remove all (black) jumper knobs, turn the power on, wait until you're sure the EIII has turned on, turn off the power again, and install the knobs as described above, turn the power on again and if you're lucky :) your EIII should find the card.

If you have a flat (grey) 50 pin ribbon data cable with three (3) connections you can install both the old SCSI hard-drive and the CF-card simultanously and transfer (after formating the CF-card) the OS and sound files easier and no need for external zip-drive (when installing the CF-card).

My SCSI-IDE adapter has BIOS revison number 3.86, and I'm using firmware 2.42 on EIII, OS 2.00
As a last resort, you may need to download an older version of the acard BIOS as David suggested me.

/Escobar

Hello again,

The IDE adapter card (the one you put your CF-card in) also has a jumper:

1-2 Master/Slave
2-3 Slave/Master.

three pins in vertical orientation:

        1
        |
        2
        |
        3

I have mine in position Slave/Master (2-3).


Ok Chris I will count you in.

/Escobar

Bloody hell one you lot have goto take some pics of all these jumpers settings!!!!!

Hi Escobar,

Thanks for the extensive response.

I just tried the 'remove all jumpers' trick but that didn't do it for me.

Next step will be to downgrade the firmware from 3.88 to 3.86. I don't have a PC with a SCSI interface. So I'm hoping that I can use a beige Apple G3 with Mac OS 9 to downgrade the OS.

I'll let you know how it turns out.

David

Since my last post I've been busy trying to find a way to downgrade the Acard firmware from version 3.88 and 3.86. And at last I succeeded. If you want to know the details I can post them but really it wasn't easy at first.

But... version 3.86 didn't solve my problem.  :-\
This means that the Acard is not at fault. Which is good news for everybody that has already ordered one.

Now, I've tried every conceivable jumper setting on the Acard and the CF card reader and no configuration gave me the ability to format a 1GB card. Though I could still use a 64MB card.

This leaves only one option: The CF-card reader. Escobar mentioned that his CF-card reader has a jumper with 3 pins for selecting the Master/Slave configuration. Mine has only 2 pins for selecting the Master/Slave config. Which means that I'm using a different CF card reader.

Escobar would you be so kind to tell us where you ordered your CF card reader? Mine doesn't mention a make or model number. I'm guessing that yours doesn't also.

I ordered my card from an eBay seller in Hong Kong (ebay name: diytown).
It had the description: 40 pin CF Compact Flash to IDE/ATA Converter Adapter B

I really hope that replacing my CF card reader solves the problem. This is all getting too weird.

Cheers,
David

This is the guy i bought mine off of he's in UK but they are exact replica's of Escobar's....

I bought 2 for safe measure, let me know if you get stuck, this guy has quick delivery also, Karl....

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Compact-Flash-to-IDE-ATA-Converter-Adapter-CF-to-40-pin_W0QQitemZ250237292511QQihZ015QQcategoryZ41994QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1713.m153.l1262

post edited: sorry last link i put up the auction had expired, anyway seems he has started a new one!!!

I agree with you David,
I don't understand why it doesn't work for you.  ???

I bought my CF->IDE adapter from a Hong Kong company. Here's a guy selling same kind of adapter as I have and he's from Hong Kong too; it's same kind of card as Karl's link shows, but this guy sells three cards for $2.99 + s/h:

http://cgi.ebay.com/3-x-CF-to-IDE-Compact-Flash-Adapter-Male-Bootable-B03_W0QQitemZ370041248924QQihZ024QQcategoryZ41994QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com/3-x-CF-to-IDE-Compact-Flash-Adapter-Male-Bootable-B03_W0QQitemZ370041248924QQihZ024QQcategoryZ41994QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

The picture of the card shows it has a light green jumper knob exactly as mine, and the white text shown on the card reads the same, so it must be exactly of same kind. The card doesn't have any BIOS so no worries about software differencies. The ad says the card name is CF to IDE Compact Flash Adapter Male Bootable B03.

I'm beginning to feel abit of a fraud that has fooled everyone to buy stuff that doesn't work!  :-[

Hi Escobar,

I ordered one of the CF card readers with the 3 pin jumpers and the same text as on your CF card reader.

By all means, don't worry about it not working properly. I'm already happy that I have an alternative for the internal hard drive. And I do prefer to have 64MB of very quiet memory in my EIII than 1GB of loud memory. Still it might be better if I had 1GB of quiet memory.

I'm also thinking about replacing the internal fans so that the EIII becomes as quiet as a whisper. But that would be a different topic.

I just want to inform I found out that the TwinMOS X140 Ultra-X 1GB Compact Flash is out of stock even on the swedish site and it won't be for sale anymore.

/Escobar

Finally got the last of the bits today which was the Acard, gonna start to try and install CF card but was wondering what interleave setting did you guys format with???

Is it the 2:1 as standard????

thanks, Karl...

At first I was only able to format a 64MB card. I bought 4 different 1GB CF-cards and none of them worked. I then found out that my CF card reader was different then the one Escobar used in his setup.

Yesterday, I received my new card reader and today I tried to format the 4 CF cards again. This time I had more luck.

I was able to format 2 3 (update 03.05.08) out of the 4 cards. I did not change the interleave setting.

I was able to format a SanDisk Ultra II 1GB card, a Kingston 1GB card and an integralmemory.com iPro 40x 1GB card.
I got a SCSI Hardware Error with the TwinMOS Ultra-X 140x. The same card that Escobar uses.

The SCSI-IDE adapter was running firmware versione 3.88.

Formatting and verifying a card took more than 2 hours to complete. So be patient.

I've included a picture of the Kingston card and the integral memory card that I was able to format. Also included is a picture that shows how I installed the CF card reader where the hard disk used to be. This picture also shows the SanDisk Ultra II card that I was able to format.
The final picture is the complete CF card solution with the SCSI-IDE adapter.

David

Update 03.05.08: While I was able to format 3 different CF-cards. The EIII didn't want to boot from the SanDisk Ultra II 1GB card.

Great David
I intend to steal your setup  ;D

Hello Guys

I just finished setting up my new CF card and it all works perfectly, was abit fiddly once i'd done formatting it (the EIII was not picking it up for some reason) so i just removed both terminator jumpers turned it on let it spin around for abit.

I shut it down again then put on "terminator enable" knob, it then picked it back up, shut down again the put on "terminator power" and booted back up.

Once it intially finds the CF card then it stays locked from then on, I then backed up from my old internal HD to CF card, then erased the software from my old internal HD so only the CF card was allowed to boot up.

I had a 3 way internal scsi cable lying around so I now use my old internal HD as my backup drive, the card that i used was the same "Kingston" card as Davids.

I had problems with my Twinmos cards I kept on getting "scsi hardware message" an hour into formatting so substituted them for the kingston card and Hey Presto it works!!!!.

I noticed when trying to format Twinmos cards that the little red light on the Card reader did not flash it just stayed on, when formatting the Kingston cards it was flashing away as if there was activity going on.

My SCSI to IDE adapter had firmware version 3.88 also so it must be an issue where the Twinmos cards only work with firmware 3.86 (which is the same as Escobar's) so would be best find out what firmware your SCSI to IDE adapter has prior to purchasing the type of cards you need to buy.

Thanks for the great help from David & Marko, no more noisy HD's this thing is silent as a mouse!!!!!

Karl.....

 

Correction: While I was able to format both the SanDisk Ultra II and the Kingston cards. I am only able to boot from the Kingston card.

When I transfered the OS to the Utra II card, the EIII didn't want to boot from it. When I booted the EIII from the floppy it could find the CF card and I could read and write onto it.

So, for now, the recommended CF-card is the Kingston 1GB Type I card.

DAvid

Having a weird problem with my set up at the moment, everthing that i transferred over from my internal HD is ok.

I have just loaded a bank  from a zip that i have and saved the bank onto my cf card, now everytime i load that particular bank and play keyboard get distortion coming thru with the sound at same time.

done all diagnostics checks and everything is fine also when load the bank from the actual zip disk i have no problems it's how it should be.

Also when loading some banks now i get "scsi hardware error" message, obviously all of this is to do with cf card, any thoughts anyone????

Thanks in advance, Karl....

UPDATE: noticed a a little crack on SCSI to IDE board hoping thats the culprit, gonna send it back to the company where i got from and get it replaced...

Will keep everyone posted, Karl.....

Hi Karl,

I also think that the crack will be the culprit. I've been using my CF-card setup with the Kingston card for the whole day without a problem.

I've also been busy transferring my library to the CF-card.

David

Hehehe...I didn't know there were people as anxious about this as I am. I tried this a year ago, but gave up, mainly because I didn't know if it was supposed to work, and because there were too many parameters to adjust. I think I've got all the stuff I need already, so of course I will give it another try now. :)

Checked my Acard this morning. It's v3.86. I bought it in October 2006 for 56 Euro. Haven't had any use for it so far, but hopefully that will change...  ;)

Now I know why I stopped trying before...the Acard I got is the UW version! I have order an internal 50-pin<->68-pin adapter now so hopefully I can continue to try next week...

In case someone's interested...  ;)

I have all the stuff I need, but other stuff has stopped me from "upgrading" the EIII. Last week I picked up nine(!) synths and two drum machines, mainly because I wanted one of the synths. I've had some work to do cleaning and servicing these. Most of them have to go soon.

Two days ago I picked up an E-max SE HD as well for 90 Euro. It worked fine, but the hard drive only worked occasionally so now I've put the flash drive solution in it instead. It works...almost. I can boot from it and I can save banks to the flash drive, but when I try to load banks I get a "Hard drive error" message. I think it has to do with the CompactFlash card being too "new". I've ordered an old, slow Kingston card instead. :)

I just installed a 1gig CF (Kingston) in my EIII and it works a treat!
after formatting and installing the software, it didn't save, but I just booted again and it seems fine
fabulous!

Nice to see that some have success with their CF cards!  :)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1-GB-KINGSTON-COMPACT-FLASH-MEMORY-CARD-PHOTO-1G-CF-1GB_W0QQitemZ170222083992QQihZ007QQcategoryZ48526QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1-GB-KINGSTON-COMPACT-FLASH-MEMORY-CARD-PHOTO-1G-CF-1GB_W0QQitemZ170222083992QQihZ007QQcategoryZ48526QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262)

This is the seller where I got mine

escobar,


hopefully this isnt off-topic, but do you think this would work for an emax II as well.?seems like a viable solution to old drives for any scsi small size drive..?

shawn rudiman

Yes it should work with any SCSI equipped sampler/keyboard. I've tried it with EIII and Kurzweil K2000 with sucess, infact the CF card was instantly 'found' by the K2000 operating system.

On Emax Yahoo Group they already have descriptions on how to build/install a CF-card solution with
SCSI->IDE adapter for Emax I/II, so if you're not already a member of that group I recommend you to join it.

/Marko

marko,

thanks will join for sure. and sorry for the off topic. i was just extra excited.. pardon.

shawn rudiman

Hello Peeps

Got my replacement SCSI to IDE adapter today(other one was faulty), and now my CF card installation is complete and works like a charm....

Nice to hear/read Karl  ;)

Hello all... I bought all the components and cables for the CF kit. I installed everything today and had jumpers on 1 / 2 / 3 / SCSI4 on 4. The EIII powered and booted fine (from floppy). When I tried to Format the CF. It showed the SCSI 4 CF... I clicked yes and it started to format. after 10 or so seconds,,, it read... SCSI HARDWARE ERROR. I tried moving the SCSI Jumper to 3 then 1... all the same. I also tried two different CF cards... same. Any ideas?

It WORKS!!! Ok.. so i read about the flash reader having 2 jumper posts, so i checked to see if i could switch it. it only had the j1 post. i pulled off the black knob for the jumper and left it exposed.... it works. i have formatted my first CF! It was a high speed Lifetime 512 card.

As I told before, one have to play around with the jumper settings to make it work. Nice to read that it works Liquidzen!

Well, finally I got a properly working CF card in my EIII.  :)

Here's my magic combo:
SCSI to IDE bridge is a Yamaha V769970.
IDE to CF adapter is a brandless thingy bought off eBay Germany.
CF card is a Kingston 1 GB card.

It took about 2 hours to format and verify the CF card. After that, I installed v2.42 on the CF card, followed by a reboot. The EIII rebooted and the OS started from the CF card without any hassles. :D

Before this combo, I tried an I-O Data IDSC21-E SCSI to IDE bridge together with the aforementioned brandless IDE to CF adapter and the Kingston CF card. Result was that the Kingston card got fried... So I'd suggest to stay away from the I-O Data IDSC21-E and use the Acard AEC-7720U or the Yamaha V769970 instead.

i m really scared to open my e3...well i opend my emax its no thang cause they are easy to get but an e3 not.!!!the fan is really loud or is it hard disk?
how can u open the e3?

can we get together what cards and parts really works??

Hi Supersurrexit,

I'll perform some tests with my stopwatch when I find some time. But I'm pretty sure the card solution is faster. And certainly much more quieter.

Cheers,
David

Hi Everyone,

I'm a long time E-mu (E2, E3, E3X) user, but new to the group.  This is a fantastic thread!  Many thanks to the top level geniuses who have contributed so much here...

So I have all the pieces needed to do this to my EIIIXP as I know some others have done, and I gave it a go this afternoon but I hit a snag and have a couple of questions.  This is after following Escobar's overview of proper setting on the Acard and the CF-->IDE adapter...

Does anybody know if the terminator jumper on the E3X itself (internal SCSI side) needs to be in place when utilizing this CF/HD mod? 

This is the jumper (one of two) next to the resistor packs for the termination-- my machine has never had an internal HD, and the manual says it ships with termination power disabled.  I didn't want to damage anything by trying before asking someone who has a working flash E3X first!

Also, has anyone experienced the outcome that I did so far:  you format your card, it proports to take just a matter of seconds to successfully complete, it shows up in disk status with proper ID and full memory free, but when you try and save anything it says "SCSI Disk Full!" instead.

I suspect that it's my Sandisk card, but I purposely tried to get an older, slower type.  It seems 133x is the max for this mod, but maybe 40x is better?  How fast is the normal SCSI drive bus access in mb/s anyway on a disk drive from 1992?  This discrepancy may be the cause of the conflicts with the newer, faster cards...

Thanks very much for the help and I look forward to joining other conversations in the future!

Cheers,
Robert

As far as regular old SCSI drives go, today I was able to install a Quantum 700MB Trailblazer - Apple branded, model TR70S026 Rev 01 - A S043C.

Like dvdborn's Quantum Maverick ProDrive, it took about 2 hours to get it formatted and verified.  So far it is working great! 

Take an old Quantum for Mac. It works perfectly !

Thanks Karl for giving me the links of the pieces of gear to buy, and thanks to all who replied to this thread.

I've been shopping around for the parts to CF my two EIII's

I plan on buying 4 of these Acard AEC-7720U so that I can have 2 CF cards in each EIII

This is the cheapest place in the USA that is in the USA from what I know.  $30 each.

http://ctrsurplus.com/acardaec-7720uscsitoidebridgecardadapter371.aspx

Manufacturer: Acard
Model Number: AEC-7720U
Revision Number: 3.71

Before I spend the $120 for 4 of these, can someone tell me if the revision 3.71 is the version of the firmware?  If so will I need to upgrade that firmware to 3.88?  If so how does one go about doing that?

Better place your orders quickly for the   Acard AEC-7720U

This is the cheapest place in the USA that I know.  $30 each.

http://ctrsurplus.com/acardaec-7720uscsitoidebridgecardadapter371.aspx



I've been watching the quantity go down from 38, 20 the next day, then I just purchased my four that I need now there are 16 left.  I have no deal with these guys and I'm not trying to make an advertisement for them BUT they are FAR cheaper then anyone else I found selling these things.  Next cheapest place I found was selling the Acard AEC-7720U  for like $70!!

The cheapest place i found for the "dual ide bootable to compact flash cf converter" is this place

http://yhst-24919672089015.stores.yahoo.net/bootable-dual-ide-to-cf-converter-adapter.html

I ordered two of them.  one for each EIII, and these allow 2 cf cards per device.


Now I'm on the hunt for cheap kingston 1gb compact flash cards that have the white flower and little purple triangle!  I found three on amazon and ordered them all, and am bidding on one from ebay.


I've attached some images of the three things minus the cable that you need for cf'ing EIII

First pic is of the  Acard AEC-7720U , second pic is the special kingston cf card, third pic is the dual bootable compact flash converter.  With these and a scsi cable I should be able to have 2 cf cards in one EIII ^_^

Thank you Rokuez,

It's good to know!

//Escobar

   I just got my first eiii -  the rack model.  I am in love with it already...  don't have much storage space though, so I decided to try your ideas.  I just ordered the stuff Rokuez mentions above.  I found some CF cards like the ones you mentioned (the kingston with the flower on the front).  Here is the link in case you're interested: http://www.flashmemorystore.com/kingston-compact-flash-1024.html (http://www.flashmemorystore.com/kingston-compact-flash-1024.html)

Here is a guide on how to install 2 one gb cf cards in your EIII.

Special thanks to Karl Scott for helping me with the jumper settings and scanning the acard instructions.  Also thanks to everyone on this thread who contributed to getting the cf card-hard drive working in their EIII's ^_^

First make sure you have the following

MATERIALS


2 -  Acard AEC-7720U

http://eiiiforum.com/picsfromusers/eiiicf/aec-7720u.gif

Here are images of the instructions manual that comes with the Acard.  thanks to Karl Scott we have these images.  If you buy a used Acard chances are you won't have these instructions.

http://eiiiforum.com/picsfromusers/eiiicf/img006.jpg
http://eiiiforum.com/picsfromusers/eiiicf/img007.jpg
http://eiiiforum.com/picsfromusers/eiiicf/img009.jpg
http://eiiiforum.com/picsfromusers/eiiicf/img008.jpg

2 - Kingston 1gb cf cards (white flower with purple triangle)

http://eiiiforum.com/picsfromusers/eiiicf/10181601940.jpg

2 - Dual Bootable Compact Flash Converter (single will work from what I've heard from others but I ordered dual accidentally and they work for me)

http://eiiiforum.com/picsfromusers/eiiicf/4443_1_b.JPG
http://eiiiforum.com/picsfromusers/eiiicf/IMG_1252.JPG
http://eiiiforum.com/picsfromusers/eiiicf/IMG_1251.JPG

1 - Y Cable going from 4 pin HD power connecter splitting into two 4 pin HD power connector

http://eiiiforum.com/picsfromusers/eiiicf/IMG_1258.JPG  Shown on the right

2 - Y cable going from 4 pin HD power connector splitting into two 4 pin 3.5 Floppy Drive Power Connector

http://eiiiforum.com/picsfromusers/eiiicf/IMG_1258.JPG Shown on the left

1 - SCSI Cable which can connect at least two devices.  You may want a SCSI Cable that can connect three or more devices.  For example 2 CF Cards, 1 Zip Drive, 1 CD Drive would require a SCSI Cable that needs 4 connections for four devices.  Make sure you purchase a scsi cable with enough length for a four device, or even three device connection setup.

You may also need jumpers if you are buying a used Acard AEC-7720U, at least I did.

http://eiiiforum.com/picsfromusers/eiiicf/IMG_1253.JPG


STEPS FOR JUMPERS AND ASSEMBLY

1.  Jumper Settings for the Acard AEC-7720U are as following

JP1 - Determines the SCSI Number for the CF Card.  I would set this to 1.  Then set the second Acard AEC-7720U to 2 (this is for the second cf card's scsi number).  & Finally make sure you zip drive, if you are using one, has it's scsi number set to something other than 1 or 2.

JP2 - Put a Jumper on it, making it terminator enabled, and place it horizontally so that it is across both pins.

JP4 - Put a Jumper on it, making it terminator enabled, and place it vertically so it is across both pins.

JP3 - Do not put a jumper on this.

Take a look at the image below.  You will see JP2 & JP4 both have jumpers on them.  BUT notice for JP1, I have the jumper placed vertically on SCSI ID 4, I suggest putting it to 1 & making the second cf card have a scsi id of 2, but do whatever you like.


http://eiiiforum.com/picsfromusers/eiiicf/IMG_1254.JPG

For a more detailed discussion on jumper settings please look at Escobar's post on page 2 of this thread http://eiiiforum.com/index.php?topic=4.15

2. CF Card Jumper Setting.

See the image below.  There are three pins, meaning the jumper can only be on two of the pins.  You will see that the jumper is placed vertically on the bottom two pins.  Leaving the top pin to be jumper-less.

http://eiiiforum.com/picsfromusers/eiiicf/IMG_1252.JPG

For a more detailed discussion on jumper settings please look at Escobar's post on page 2 of this thread http://eiiiforum.com/index.php?topic=4.15

3. Which slot on the Dual Bootable Compact Flash Converter to place the CF Card?

Place the CF card on the top slot so to speak.  This is the slot, where the power connector and three jumper pins are.  See the image below.

http://eiiiforum.com/picsfromusers/eiiicf/IMG_1252.JPG


4.  Plug the Dual Bootable Compact Flash Converter into the Acard AEC-7720U like so in the image below.

http://eiiiforum.com/picsfromusers/eiiicf/IMG_1255.JPG


5.  Assemble the "Y cable going from 4 pin HD power connector splitting into two 4 pin 3.5 Floppy Drive Power Connector" to the two conjoined pieces from step 4 as in the image below.

http://eiiiforum.com/picsfromusers/eiiicf/IMG_1259.JPG

6.  Now for the Assembled CF Card HD installation. 

If you have a zip disc instead of a 3.5 floppy drive you will need to either keep the HD connected on the scsi cable, OR remove the zip disc and connect a 3.5 floppy drive that works with the EIII. 

THE EIII CANNOT BOOT FROM THE ZIP DISC EVEN IF THE OPERATING SYSTEM IS ON THE ZIP DISK. 

So you either have to boot from the HD, which has the OS on it.  Or disconnect the HD, have a 3.5 floppy drive connected AND have a copy of the EIII OS on a 3.5 floppy disc.

So in conclusion you will be copying the OS from a 3.5 floppy disc, or the HD which you will be leaving connected.  I suggest you disconnect the HD, and have the OS on a 3.5 disc so as to not run into any SCSI ID Problems.

Now disconnect the HD from the 4 pin HD power connector, and connect the item in the image below.  NOTICE you are only going to connect ONE CF Card Assembly.  So you will only be connecting the item to the left in the image below.

7.  Now for me my EIII saw the CF card immediately.  However some users have not had their cf card identified by the EIII's OS.  If this is the case go to Page 1 of this thread and read Escobar's post where he begins by saying.

"First time you boot everything up it might be that EIII won't find the CF card, if that's the case you need to turn the power off and remove the jumpers from the SCSI->IDE adapter, boot EIII again, and then turn the power off. Replace the jumpers and turn on the power again. I had to do this before EIII could find the card but it eventually did."

8.  Once you CF Card is seen by the OS go to the Module called Master then - 7 Disk Utilities - then 7 Format Disc.

The formatting for one cf card will take 2 and a half hours.  This is not an exaggeration it will take quite a while.

While my CF Card was formatting I would randomly see a red LED light go on and off as the OS was accessing and formatting the CF Card.

9.  Now that the CF Card is formatted go back to Module Master - 7 Disk Utilities - and 4 Copy software.

You will either be copying the OS From a 3.5 floppy disk or the original HD which you left connected.

10. Now according to Dr. C once the OS is installed you should try to copy a blank bank to the CF Card.  It doesn't matter if anything is in this bank.  Simply press save bank and attempt to save a bank to the CF Card.

I for some reason or other was not able to do this.  I kept receiving "SCSI Hardware Error" when I was trying to save this bank.

I simply turned off the EIII, turned it back on and the EIII booted up from the OS on the CF Card.  After that restart, I was then able to save a blank bank and I did so just to be prudent.

11.  Now if you want to install another CF Card, which would give you two 1 gb CF-Hard drives so to speak simply assemble another device like the one show in the image below.  Except now you will need the "Y Cable going from 4 pin HD power connecter splitting into two 4 pin HD power connector"

shown on the right of the image below. 

http://eiiiforum.com/picsfromusers/eiiicf/IMG_1259.JPG

Repeat the same steps for this new cf card assembly and you will have to wait another 2.5 hours for the second cf card to format.  Install the OS on this second CF Card and you will be almost finished.


12.  Now you or your tech will need to re-calibrate your PSU, at least I did.  After I had my two CF cards installed formatted and working I checked the Voltage coming off of the PSU.  Which is described in this thead

According to Dr. C DO NOT DISCONNECT ANY CABLES FROM ANYTHING WHEN CHECKING THE PSU Voltage, so ignore the disconnecting of power cables from devices in the thread below.

http://eiiiforum.com/index.php?topic=8.0

Leave everything connected and just check the voltage at the one point i.e the molex connector's yellow wire, the molex connector going to the card cage.  If you don't know what you're doing let your tech do this for you.


When I checked this voltage at this point I noticed it was at something like 6 volts, when it should be at 5.05 volts.  It had been at 5.05 volts when the HD had been connected, but I suppose sense the two CF Cards require less power it had been giving off too much power now with these less power hungry cf cards attached (i'm not positive about this but it is my guess).

Here is an image of the PSU with a circle around the calibration pot

http://eiiiforum.com/picsfromusers/eiiicf/PSU Pot.jpg



If for some reason or other the links for these images don't work, private message me and let me know and i'll fix the image links.

This mustt heve been a real great effort to send this message, we should all thank rokuez and give him the golden medal.

Thanks a lot, this is great.

Best regards

Dr.C

approved!   ;)
Thumbs up!

Great post Rokuez!
Thanks.

David
http://dvdborn.blogspot.com

thanks rokuez! somehow, i didn't read the last page of this thread and missed your step by step instruction,..very helpful..time to order the parts...

but it looks like i missed out on the $30 Acard.

i still dont mind spending $100 for it  ...to have 2gigz of CF in my EIII...thats awesome!

Does anybody here have one of those ACard adapters they'd be willing to sell me? I've got the IOData one and it doesn't work, and I can't find any ACard ones anywhere.   (I'm in the USA.)

-David

http://www.atacom.com/program/atacom.cgi?SEARCH=SEARCH_ALL&KEYWORDS=SCIB_ACAR_E7_UM

this is the cheapest place that i found by googling "Acard AEC-7720U" ,  "AEC-7720U" and "AEC7720U" from the shopping part of google.  after this $74.95 place the cheapest I was finding them was $99 :(

Just wanted to say "thanks" for everyone who contributed to this, I did the CF modification today and it went without a hitch....well i DID get a lexor CF card that wasnt compatible, but i also bought a correct white flower, purple triangle and it works perfect.
I was a little worried about mounting this, so i zip tied around the card and the two adapters so they wouldnt come apart and i Velcro'd the whole thing down where my HD used to be.
Now i need to fill that card with some samples!!
Thanks guys!!  :-*

Howdy !

I've just bought a Quantum Trailblazer replacement drive which was recommended in the above list of drives,
but it only has a 40 pin connector.

How did you get it working? Is there a difference in the ribbon being 50 pin on the outside that connects to the case and the connections inside or a mod that was done to get it happening?
I haven't taken the whole thing out yet, I just compared the ribbon and the drive which didn't add up.

If you could bring forth thy ultimate wisdom I would be grateful :)

Edsta,
Are you sure that it's a SCSI model?

It's an internal drive 502 meg IDE.

I take it I should of got a SCSI version...lol

Am I right?  :'(

Thanks for getting back so quickly man.

You won't be able to connect an IDE drive directly to your EIII.
You can use an IDE to SCSI converter. But if you're going that route you might as well go all the way and also install a Compact Flash card.

So, the easiest solution now is to find a SCSI drive.

hello,
great solution!
Does anybody know the actual price and a dealer to get the Acard AEC-7720U from?
The last price listed is 30USD and the post is already one year old. Here in Germany one card is about 100Euro.
This dealer named before is out of stock and I have to replace all HD`s of my three EIII`s.

30 USD for an Acard (new) ?
Mmm... I just paid 100 Euro - but as you said, I ordered it from a German webshop (Vesalia) :)

Note that the IO Data Device Inc R-IDSC-E/R adapter should work well too with EIII...
...that is if you can find the v1.28 firmware version - because higher versions don't work anymore with old Emu samplers. This adapter board is much cheaper than the Acard one, but as I said: it's not easy to find. The most common ones are the current v1.30 boards.

The 30$ isn't for new parts. They are used, but okay. They don't ship to Europe. I had to ask a friend to buy them for me. I bought 3 pieces. They work excellent. (Actual sellingprice on the Acard website is 248$)

I also tested IO-Data Version 1.30.9 and can verify that they don't work for EIII nor ASR-10. They do work with Kurzweil K2xxx and EOS samplers. (Pitty, since they are only 20 Euro and have way more settings).
I'll check if it's possible to get older firmware on it. Thanks for that info!  :)

Hi! i just want to buy a working scsi HD with preinstalled system and library, maybe someone there who has successfully replaced by a CF. thanks!.

I would like that to...

but i'm checking out the card intfce for my two E3's and E2

Anyone know if it´s possible to get older firmware on the IODATA
I have on that  works in my EOS but It doesn´t work in my EIII
so probably it´s the firmware.

[/quote]

The 30$ isn't for new parts. They are used, but okay. They don't ship to Europe. I had to ask a friend to buy them for me. I bought 3 pieces. They work excellent. (Actual sellingprice on the Acard website is 248$)

I also tested IO-Data Version 1.30.9 and can verify that they don't work for EIII nor ASR-10. They do work with Kurzweil K2xxx and EOS samplers. (Pitty, since they are only 20 Euro and have way more settings).
I'll check if it's possible to get older firmware on it. Thanks for that info!  :)
[/quote]

REad through this many times and just need a little clarification.

  I have the acard 7720u, and a dual ide cf adaptor like this one

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dual-CF-Compact-Flash-to-40-Pin-IDE-Adapter-Card-/130680108734?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e6d2436be

   I'm a little confused as to the process for using both slots. Do I just install cards in both slots? How do they show up in the EIII? AS seperate scsi id's?

  Waiting to do this as I have 2 ultra quiet fans on order and want to do everything at once. Also looking at the possibility of installing a VFD display, it looks like noritake makes a compatible display.

 Advice as to using 2 cf cards in this setup?

80sboy
tom

Hi! what it means INTERLEAVE SETTING 2:1 to format hard disk?
Thanks

Federico

Hi Frederico,

Page 3-18 and 3-19 in the EIII reference manual will explain you how you can format a drive with a different interleave setting.

You can download the reference manual here: http://kunst.phl.be/~dvdborn/EIII/Emulator_III_Reference_Manual.pdf (http://kunst.phl.be/~dvdborn/EIII/Emulator_III_Reference_Manual.pdf).

Escobar do you have a part number to order this?