E-mu Emulator Sampler User Forum for the EIII EII EI and EIII XP

Just got my rs422 cable. So I hooked it up to the Mac Classic, attached the zip drive, everything working fine. Midi is on, I open SD- and it says 'Cannot communicate with E2, make sure it's plugged in/Midi is on'. They are! Any ideas?

(http://img.skitch.com/20101005-1wqesumhq2dphr4j52rwjip7rc.png)

No Midi! No Midi! Turn it off.

Plus: Make sure that you actually use the Serial port (Mac side) that you configured SD with (printer or modem port).
Plus: Make sure to have OS 3.1 running on EII side.

Yeah, I've done all that :( Still no go. It's probably something really simple, haven't used a Mac like this in 20 years.

Try using another Mac. I have a Mac SE/30 with OS 7.1 and I get the same message, and I also get it with a Powerbook 5300 runing OS 7.5.3. The only one that I get to work is the Mac Qudra 950, regardless what OS I use. I have OS 7.5.? and also 8.0 and it works with both. If you dont have another Mac try changing the OS.


rtech

Nah, the Mac is fine, the guy gave me a full demo. It's something I'm doing wrong.

Did you select the correct port on the Calibrate Menu? If you are using the Modem port try the printer and go to Calibrate to select it.

  Try also puting the EII in Mac Control from the Special Module. Then go to the mac and try to see if it works.

Yes. I tried putting the EII into Mac mode, then when I try and send a bank the Mac locks up.

When I try and send, I can hear a series of low beeps from my speaker which the EII is plugged into, so It's trying to do something...

My EII is an EII+HD when I go to Send Bank to EII, the EII access the Hard Drive and loads something. Does yours access the FD/HD when you Select the Send Bank Menu? So whom ever you got the Mac From was using it with an EII? Was it with your EII? What OS version is your EII running? You also need to be using the EII Main ROM and Scanner ROM version 2.1 or higher to use it with SD.

It's a standard EII and I watched the guy send banks when I was there, with this Mac and this EII. I have disks of all the O/S but the one that's in now is 3.1 like I was told to use.

Ok, the only other thing could be your cable. Check that the cable does not have any bent pins on the Mac side. The pins on the Mini DIN are easily bent. You can also check for continuity with a meter using the Pin assignment on the following page:

http://www.emulatorarchive.com/Archives/Samplers/E2Overview/E2SD/e2sd.html

  I made my own cable using the specs listed on that site and therefore know for sure that it works.

rtech

Hi to GB,

have you remembered, that you have to start up the mac first, and then the E II. If not, the E II doesn´t recognize the mac, and nothing goes on.

.

So true  :D

Ok, well this time, I turned it on, pressed send bank to EII, the EII made a noise and said 'under control of macintosh'. Then it said cannot communicate again. Port is right, it's on 500, nothing is bent...any ideas?

Not really any help but a suggestion. Back away from using the Mac for awhile, and start having some fun with just the Ell.
You've waited a long time to get one, and this must be very frustrating to you.
Sample some stuff, have fun with it for awhile, and then once you've learned your way around the Ell, you'll be ready to tackle the job with a clear head. :)

Do you have any disks you can use right now?

Yes, what Seamonkey said above.....  ;)

If not, again... try another Mac if you haven't already. Where are you located? 

I know the Mac works because I used it with this EII at the guy's house before I bought it. I'm sure it's just something simple I haven't done. I live near B'ham, UK.
I do have quite a few floppies, but I have the entire factory banks on zip and I'm dying to hear them!!

One more try  :-\ :

I recall there was some possible issue, if you set the RAM assignment incorrectly - I took a look at my settings yesterday evening. If you click the Sound designer icon and then show its properties, you'll see its assigned RAM usage.
These are the values which I set, and which work fine:

recommended: 468
I set it to: 2468 (I got 4 MB of ram)

I don't really think this may solve your problem, but maybe you give it a try.

If still nothing works, it M U S T be your cable... I mean you SAW that guy demonstrating with that VERY same equipment... only thing different is the cable!

Is there any way you can contact the seller and explain what problems you're having?
As you said, it may be a very simple thing you're missing.

Do you have a simple multimeter that can measure DC voltage and resistors ?
If so, it's rather easy to figure out if the problem is caused by the EII RS422 port, the cable or the Mac.
Just let us know, then we can provide you with the signal levels you should measure on each of the pins.

One possible cause - besides a bad cable of course - is that either the driver or the receiver IC in the EII is dead. It happened to my EII too, even while the port had been functioning properly before. A simple thing like static electricity through the pins of the cable can cause this damage. The IC's are not protected, they are directly wired to the DB25 terminal... that's why they are sensitive...

Another possible cause: if you have a piggyboard version of the RS422 board (=a small board on top of the digital board in the upper left corner), then it may have come loose during shipping/transportation. This board is not soldered, it just plugs into a socket on the digital board, so it can loosen from it...

Just some thoughts.
You would have to open the EII of course  ;)  ;)

Good points!
And she's already opened it up I think.

Hey, if you are still trying to get it to work try the following.

  1. Restart the Mac Classic without Extensions.

  2. Make sure to dissable any Virtual Memory. (Make sure to restart to disable the Virtual Memory)

What OS are you running on the Mac? How much memory does it have? Does the Mac Classic use 32bit Addressing? If it does turn it OFF.

I have three old macs which I use, but two are very problematic when using it with the EII.

Tried everything you've said. Still haven't had the chance to open it up. I emailed the seller again. Can someone just give me step by step instructions please just in case I missed something out. So bloody frustrating. Also when I try to send, it opens an empty box where all the sound files are- I double click the folder, they are all there. SD can't seem to read them. I've tried opening SD from floppy and zip, the EII makes a noise, says under control of mac, and then all I get is can't connect. Should I be opening SD from the desktop instead? Clutching at straws, I know, but if someone would just give me step by step in the relevant order at least I'd know it's not me and the prob is tech side.

SD not reading the files probably means they're not stated as E2BK files. If so, you need to change the resource forks using filetyper program, see this photo here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/emulatorII-list/photos/album/1866994847/pic/1880185672/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc

The communication error I'm unsure about. At the weekend I used a Powerbook 140, 165 & 180 to connect to my EII, they all worked except for the PB 140 running OS 7.5, I tried everything but got exactly the same message as you. No explanation for it and nothing I changed/tried worked.

Despite it working previously, you must now try another Mac to highlight whether the problem is with the Mac or your EII, otherwise you're just going to get stressed out over it..!  :-[

I'm located up North in the UK, if you want to chat through the process/issue I'll try to help but can't promise to solve it.....! Up to you.  ;)

Would it be too much to ask if I could contact you on messenger or email? I have AIM. I know the Mac works, I used it at the blokes house, I'm starting to think it's the Emulator. It's been acting really strange the past month but I've been so busy with this production course I haven't had chance to open it up (that and the fact I have guests staying in the room it's in)
Would be great I could go through it with you via a messenger whilst I'm doing it.

OK, I don't do messenger but you can email me if you want (use the link at the left of my user name).

If communicating via messages though, may be best staying in this topic then at least other EII users can follow what's happening and maybe pin-point it...?

Ok. Can you please give me a step by step order as to what to do and any cabling, in case there's something stupid I've forgotten to plug in (I haven't, but...) The Mac and EII are both currently off. The EII is an upgraded 2 floppy version, no HD. I have SD on a floppy, and a zip disk. The factory banks are on the zip disk. I want to hear the banks on the disk played via the Emulator. If I do this exactly as you do it should show where the problem is...thanks.

Start up the Mac, then the EII and leave your OS 3.1 booting floppy disk in the top drive.

Copy SD and your EII files onto the hard drive of the Mac. Run the program from there, configure the port (modem recommended) and change the program into front panel mode (bringing up a picture of the EII panel)   

You may also need  filetyper program off the Yahoo site  to correct the resource forks of the EII files but you can save this for later, you don't need to do this to get your EII and Mac communicating.

Just a thought, for now, unplug any midi cables from the EII and don't forget to plug the communication cable into the modem serial port on the back of the Mac.

Taking ages to copy the banks across, bear with me.

Besides resource fork problems... one common mistake made by "first time SD users" is that they are using the E2-->Mac and Mac-->E2 main menu options to transfer banks.
The file box opened by these will not recognize the EII banks because these menu options are meant for transferring EII samples instead of EII banks.
To transfer banks, you have to go to the EII Front Panel mode and then use the Send/Receive Bank options.

But I guess this is exactly what you're trying to do, right ?

Anyway, also E2->Mac and Mac->E2 need RS422 communication, so if you have a "can't communicate error" with these functions, you still have a problem...

I did everything you said. When I pressed send bank, the emulator went into Mac mode. Mac then said it couldn't communicate. Also, in the last 5 mins, my top floppy drive appears to have died. Every time I try and send something, I can hear my amp making a popping sound.

You've run ahead of yourself whilst I was typing..... you should have pressed the special button on your EII first before trying to send or obtain a bank, not always necessary but this tells the EII to obtain some data off the floppy before communicating with the Mac. If your top drive has packed in then that's probably your issue...!  What drive did you use to boot?

Top drive only just packed in. It boots up now, says software rev 3.1 and nothing happens... It made a nasty sound about 5 mins ago then wouldn't read a disk. Bloody 'ell. Did what you said using the bottom and top drive (before it went) and it still won't communicate. I did special on the EII.

Forget your top drive for now, switch off the EII and boot using the lower 2nd drive using another floppy (in case the other one is duff). It will pause looking for a disk in the top drive but will read and boot from the other eventually. Try again but press the special button first before you try to 'get' the soundbank from the EII. It probably won't work as it does sound like something else is causing your problem, my bet is the Mac as this is EXACTLY the same thing that happened with me on a PB140 at the weekend but was fine when using others.   

Just tried that. Now I have no sound, no top drive, and no communication with Mac. This just gets better and better. The damn Mac was working fine, I used it myself! How can it just suddenly not work?
Is my top drive screwed?

Well, that all sounds not very good, does it...

That's at least something.
Did you try again immediately after having received the "can't communicate" error.
My Mac Classic is always giving the error the first time it puts the EII in Mac mode. But I just repeat the "send bank" and from then on it works fine. It happens that the ACK response given by the EII to the Mac upon receiving the "put in mac mode" command is sent so fast that the Mac didn't "see" it...

If the Mac is able to put the EII in Mac Control mode but is not able to get any further communication with the EII, I think the RS422 driver IC of the EII is failing. This means the EII can not respond to the Mac, but the Mac really expects responses from the II  ;)

Just some ideas...

Because it's 25 years old....!  :-\

Seriously, I'd just stop trying now. YOU NEED to clarify whether it's the EII or Mac at fault, I suspect the latter. Pick up another Mac Classic, SE or Powerbook 165c or 180c so you can clarify which is giving you the problem. If and when you get his working, you won't need to use your floppy drives much so can manage with the remaining working one.

If the other is totally dead, I would remove it and put the good one in the top drive. MAKE SURE YOU NOTE THE JUMPER SETTINGS FIRST AS THEY'RE DIFFERENT ON EACH DRIVE.    

Yeah, I did try it again. The top drive lights up, it gets as far as saying the software version then the drive just spins. I need to get this to a proper repair place. Half the time I don't even get any sound at all. Is there anywhere in the UK that fixes them?

Same issue on mine, hence pressing the Mac mode 'special' button first before ever trying to 'get' or 'send' from within SD.

I presume you've tried another floppy and/or used a floppy drive head cleaning diskette...?

James Walker of Synth Repair Services is in Stoke. He's top with all vintage gear and fixed up issues on my EII but not sure he has experience of using Mac connections and Sound Designer.... He could however, test the components of your EII. Unfortunately, he's extremely busy and difficult to get hold of most of the time. Website here:

http://www.synthrepairservices.com/

I wouldn't even bother taking it to him until you've tried another Mac.

Yeah, same with all floppies. Where would I get a cleaning diskette for one of these drives?

http://cgi.ebay.com/5-25-Disk-Drive-Head-Cleaning-Kit-New-/130442220465?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e5ef653b1

Several available on Ebay US.

Cheers.

An afterthought, I'm pretty sure my PB 180 did the same thing as yours at the weekend, starting Mac mode but then stating it could not communicate with the EII.... I turned off virtual memory on the Mac and then it worked. You absolutely sure you have done this on the Mac?

No, I haven't. How do I do that?

AArghh, Rtech mentioned this to you three pages of posts ago !!!!  ::)  ;) (repeated below).  


Go to control panels on the Mac, select memory or Powerbook (and check all others) to make sure virtual memory is off. Also try with Apple talk on and off and all extensions on and off.....  

Just disabled all extensions and memory- still nothing. Can't communicate.

Just for info, have you seen this:

http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/emulatorII-list/database?method=reportRows&tbl=3

You'll note the many different configurations for using old Macs and SD for EII successfully. From my experience, if a Mac doesn't work after first few attempts/changes, give up and simply get another...  

Please, just give up for now and try another Mac. If that also doesn't work and has been proved to do so with the particular OS installed etc. then it must be your EII and something has happened in transit from the seller as E-Synthesist has suggested.

I have a Mac Classic Colour and several working Powerbooks with Sound Designer installed. I intend selling a couple of PB's at some stage but have no spare PSU's at the moment. If you want to try one of these, let me know. I'm in Preston, Lancs.     

I have. Doing my head in now. I have a feeling it's the EII seeing as everything seems to be going on it in the past month. Thanks for the offer but Preston's a bit far to drive and the postage would be extortionate. I'll get one locally.

No prob, they're easy enough to find on Ebay. Powerbook 165c's or the 180c will keep the postage cost down. 

If your EII is losing life, give James at Synth Repair a call, you may get lucky and get slot to see him with your EII. An overhaul/inspection is always a good thing, particularly on the PSU.

ProudEmaxOwner,
 
 I honestly believe that the Mac is the issue. Try using a different one. From my experience using the SD, I have gotten my SE/30 and my Powerbook 5300c to work intermittently. My Quadra 950 however works 100% of the time. Regardless whether I power the EII first or the Quadra first. On the Quadra I dont have to go and hit the Special Menu on the EII. I just go to the SD send banks and it works.

You should first try using a different OS version on the Mac. I use 7.5.2, 7.5.3, 8.0 and 8.1.

rtech

One of my EIIs had this problem when I bought it - the previous owner warned me about it and said the floppy drive needed to be replaced.
At home, this EII fell on the floor from half a meter height. I was in panic and assumed the whole thing would be completely dead. But guess what: it worked better than before and - very interesting: - the floppy drive was working perfectly again and it still is in good shape today two years after the incident  :D
So: yeah, get a disk drive cleaner.
(don't throw the EII on the ground - that's not the recommended alternative)
I *really* also recommend that you open this beast and have a look inside before bringing it to a synth repair shop and spend at least 100 pounds. With all the trouble you have, I really think you have bad connections inside. If not, then ... bring it to a synth repair shop ...

If you happen to be in Belgium one of the next days, I can also have a look at it  ;D  ;D
Or offer you a Mac SE/HD (I have lots of them, I once bought one from a Mac freak but I HAD to take the other 7 Macs with me for free, it was part of the deal...)

Sweet ! No problems with spare parts eh?   :)

Ah bugger, why do you all have to live so far away? If you're ever near me, I'd PAY you to look at my sick EII  :-\

I think it's the cable, as everything has worked before.

But - I can't believe that you haven't opened up the EII yet. Please open it and reseat all connectors.

Well, shite.

Opened him up last night and had a good look. Nothing was loose, burnt, missing, or broken. What I'm getting now is really really quiet notes that are hanging when I let go of the key. You can barely hear it. Got my dad to look at it too (works with electronics, he fixed my dead Emax) and he can't find the fault.
Can't afford a tech right now. Bollocks.

Clean all the keyboard contacts, they may not be getting the note off information.   

We did... It was fine when I bought it, too. I've got to get it to a tech.

Then James Walker at Synth Repair Services in Stoke is your man. Be patient trying to get through to him. Good luck.

Been trying for almost a month to get hold of him, no joy. If any of you are coming to the delightful [sic] city of Birmingham, or anywhere in the Mids at any time on your travels, lemme know, I'll pay you to have a look at it! ATM, he's just sitting rather forlornly on his desk, no sound output whatsoever. Such a shame.