Untested Emulator II -- possible problems?

[ruthven]

Hi everyone.  I'm new here and actually--I've never owned any E-mu equipment save for my X-board  ... But I've long wanted an Emulator II--unfortunately their price range has kept me from attaining one.  Anyway, I might get a chance to acquire one much cheaper (like in the $200-$350 range)--problem is that it's untested as the current owner doesn't have any disks.  It does power on and displays a message to insert a disk.  So I guess the question is: what is likely to be wrong with it?  I mean, the disk drive is the first obvious candidate for malfunction, but what else (if anything) typically goes wrong with these machines or needs maintaining over the years?  Are spare disk drives and/or other parts easy to come by?  Are spare parts expensive?

Sorry for such a general newb question... guess it'll all come down to how much I can get it for as to whether or not it's worth the "risk".  Too bad there's no way (correct me if I'm wrong) to recreate an EII disk on a PC 5 1/4" drive from an image... I'd make one and mail it to the guy to test it.  Otherwise I take it that the only way to test this EII (without an original EII disk) is to format any old 5 1/4" disk in the machine itself and then sample something, process the sample through the synthesis architecture and save it to the disk...? 

Thanks for reading.

[JMP]

Everyone was a EII newb once including me, don't be concerned with posting.  

For $200-$350 reckon it's worth it even if there's things wrong with it. However, be prepared to spend time, sweat and money to get it tip top. Saying that, you could be lucky.... it's asking for a disk to boot, someone here or I can easily send you one to try in the machine.

Original EII 5.25" floppy drives are as rare as chicken teeth but you can get a 3.5" replacement still (I think). PSU overhaul is a sure bet unless you're lucky, keybed contacts will likely need a clean, backlight and/or the display may have faded and whilst backlights are available, other spare parts are not easy to come by. If you have no access to an experienced tech/vintage kit repairer you may want to avoid it unless you can test it yourself first.  

Anyway, as I said earlier, if it is knackered and too big a job for you, I'm sure you'd get your money back selling it on Ebay unless it looks bashed or very crap cosmetically.  

[Elmbeatz]

...
 It does power on and displays a message to insert a disk.  So I guess the question is: what is likely to be wrong with it? 
...

  Nothing's wrong with it (so far).

The OS is on a proper EII disk.
So, without a functionable disk, the thing won't do anything.

For 200 $ you can't go wrong.
Even the SSM chips alone go on Ebay for up to 50 $ a piece.
There are 8 of these on board...

[seamonkey]

Is this the one that just sold on ebay today for $496.00?
I was thinking of bidding on that one but got busy on a project and forgot to place a bid.

Just out of curiousity, what is the average price of a working Emulator ll these days?
The one on ebay was an Emulator ll+ HD which makes it an even better deal.

Hi JMP

[JMP]

Just out of curiousity, what is the average price of a working Emulator ll these days?
The one on ebay was an Emulator ll+ HD which makes it an even better deal.

Hi JMP

Alright there Seamonkey  . How's that ESI doing?

Problem here is you hardly see any for sale fully working. Think the last one I saw in UK that was went for about £7-800 and was an HD model.

[ruthven]

Thanks for your replies.  Yes, that one that sold for $496 on eBay was indeed one of the EIIs I was checking out.  It was hanging around the $200 mark so long that I began thinking it might sell for under $400 when all was said and done.  I'm not surprised it ended up going for more considering it's a +HD model.  And perhaps there's nothing wrong with it, in which case the winner of that auction got a deal.  The last time I checked (almost a year ago) a working EII would set you back at least $700-$800 if you were lucky, more often $1000-$1200 (on eBay anyway)--and I believe this was just for the standard model.  But as of late, I've been seeing more and more untested units that have cheap opening bids--and I haven't been following most of these auctions till the end, so I don't know what an untested EII sells for averagely.

So I guess I was just basically wondering if there were any particular problems EIIs were prone to--besides failing drives (as I imagine this would be one of the easiest things to fix)--more like failing filter chips, VCA section, etc.?  I've checked into drive replacements and according to emulatorarchive.com, standard (new) 3.5" drives can be used and the connection process is not difficult.

I'm no synth tech but I'm pretty sure I'll be able to open it up, blow dust out, spray connections with contact cleaner, clean keyboard contacts if needed and swap out the drive... not much beyond that though.

[seamonkey]

Just out of curiousity, what is the average price of a working Emulator ll these days?
The one on ebay was an Emulator ll+ HD which makes it an even better deal.

Hi JMP

Alright there Seamonkey  . How's that ESI doing?

Problem here is you hardly see any for sale fully working. Think the last one I saw in UK that was went for about £7-800 and was an HD model.

ESI is presently non-operational, so I haven't had a chance to try it out since we last talked. If I can't find a part for it, I may have to sell it for parts.
Also I've been trying to find my way around the Elll and roll some of my own samples, it's a work in progress but I think I'll eventually get the hang of it.

ruthven, I assume you've read every post in the Emulator ll general discussion/technical sections. If not they contain a plethora of information about what things usually go wrong with them.

[ruthven]

ruthven, I assume you've read every post in the Emulator ll general discussion/technical sections. If not they contain a plethora of information about what things usually go wrong with them.

Actually I hadn't  -- thanks for the suggestion.

So I've browsed through the technical section a bit... seems like the molex connectors can be culprit to several problems.  I've read through several posts and I'm impressed, both with people's specific knowledge of this machine and their willingness to go out of their way to troubleshoot some complex problem and help someone out!  Knowing there are enthusiasts out there who will take the time to do this is certainly encouraging...  on the other hand, now seeing what other kinds of problems EIIs can suffer from (and what it takes to fix them) is a little daunting with my limited technical skills/knowledge.

So I guess it will just come down to how cheap I can get an untested one for--since I doubt I'll ever be able to afford a tested working one.  I'm currently following this auction:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=300455940593&Category=38070&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26its%3DI%26otn%3D1

I actually placed the first bid--wasn't surprised at all to be immediately outbid considering it opened at $99.  Could someone check out those pics for me?--should I be concerned with the laminate damage to the Master Control panel (looks like it was exposed to some kind of moisture or water) as far as functionality is concerned or is this more likely to be a purely cosmetic issue?  Also if you check out the enlarged picture that shows the disk drive, it looks to me like it's slightly bent up inside... can anyone tell?

[seamonkey]

I wouldn't touch that one with a 10ft pole, and I live in Michigan, so it could be an easy drive to pick it up if I won.
It looks like severe water damage, lord only knows what the inside looks like, and you're right, that disk drive looks damaged.

I think you should be thankful someone else outbid you so you won't be stuck with it.

Step away from the auction and be a little more discrete on pulling the trigger next time. I think you knew with a gut feeling this was bad apples.

Why don't you start with a nice Emax? I've seen them for $350 around here. Get the feeling for the analog Emu samplers, and then if you need to upgrade to the EMU ll, you can sell it.

Anyway, just my thoughts!

[Elmbeatz]

Wouldn't buy it neither.
It seems to be a very early one (serial #) which means that it's most probably got a Rev 0 digital board (-> not RS 422 compatible). It's a single drive EII - not very good. And the panel looks awful...
It might be good for parting it out..

[ruthven]

Cool--thanks guys.  Yeah, I wasn't sure if that panel was indicative simply of humid storage conditions or direct contact with water.  But with the starting bid so low, I knew I would never get it for that price anyway (I often place the 1st bid on something I want so I don't feel so bad about "sniping" it at the last second).  Also, in the remote chance I won it for that--I figured for $175 total including shipping, I could probably make all (or most) of the money back in selling parts as someone mentioned above (SSM chips, spare keys, etc.).  But as you say this looks to be water damage, there is a chance some of these parts are damaged and useless anyway.  Still, the seller claims that it powers on, drive lights up and prompts user for a disk--that's a good sign I guess.

Thanks though for the heads up.  At this point I feel much more knowledgeable in potential risk factors of untested EIIs, and what may or may not be worth a risk.  I'll sit this auction out--someday though...

Why don't you start with a nice Emax? I've seen them for $350 around here. Get the feeling for the analog Emu samplers, and then if you need to upgrade to the EMU ll, you can sell it.

For a while I was under the impression that the only analog E-mu samplers were the Emulator I & II, but recently I've found that the EIII and original Emax were also analog.  From what I've read, the Emax looks very similar to the EII spec wise, enhanced even.  Does it use the same SSM filters?--my guess is no... how does it's sound compare to an EII?  They certainly are a lot cheaper...

[esynthesist]

how does it's sound compare to an EII

Although I love the Emax (I have a few of them), I'm sure the Emulator II sounds different and... I don't know how to express it... I think the EII has a better and "deeper" sound. The basses are lower/deeper, I'm always thrilled when I hear the sounds coming from my Emulator II.
To be honest, I even like the EII's sound more than the EIII's sound.

But: this is a comparison - it does not mean that the Emax sounds bad. Not at all. It sounds really good.
And it is cheaper.
And it is more stable/reliable.
And it has more features. It is upgradable to SCSI and can use CF cards for example.

[Elmbeatz]

...
I think the EII has a better and "deeper" sound. The basses are lower/deeper, I'm always thrilled when I hear the sounds coming from my Emulator II.
To be honest, I even like the EII's sound more than the EIII's sound.
...

Agreed!

[ruthven]

I've heard a lot of people actually prefer the EII's sound over the EIII's... I can't comment cause I'm not so familiar with the specific sound quality of an EIII to compare, or an Emax for that matter.  EIII's are just flat out too expensive for me.  I'll have to check out some sound demos of the Emax sometime though.  Especially the "SE" model that incorporates some form of additive synthesis... this seems similar to the Korg DSS-1, a sampler synth with an analog backend that processes samples through subtractitive synthesis and incorporates an additive synthesis section.  Actually, the DSS-1 (fine machine in and of itself) is what I "settled for" when I originally dismissed the possibility of ever acquiring an EII.  So since I already have that machine, I figured if I moved on to E-mu, I'd go straight for the gold with an EII.

One last quick question: there's yet another cheap untested EII on the bay--this one looks in decent enough shape--some abrasions/scuffing and "stickiness" from broken off foam being removed from the surface... But when powered on it displays a message I've never seen--"**Emulator 2**  Boot in Progress"--and just hangs on this screen with no disk in the drive to boot it...  I thought it would give a message something along the lines of "Insert disk".  It's not an HD model as it is not labeled as such and has 2 disk drives--does it seem like something's messed up for this message to display when there was never any disk in the drive?

[esynthesist]

**Emulator 2**  Boot in Progress"

Normal behaviour of an EII at boot time is one of the following:
- if a disk has been inserted before powering on: "Emulator 2 Boot In Progress" message is shown for about 1 second, followed by "Emulator 2 Software Rev X.X" while the disk is loading (20-25 seconds)
- if a disk has not been inserted before powering on: "Emulator 2 Boot In Progress" message is shown for about 5 seconds, followed by "Insert Diskette". It's perfectly possible to take a picture of the "Boot In Progress" message because it's there for 5 seconds.
 
If it keeps saying "Boot In Progress" while there's no disk in the EII,  then it may be hanging before even trying to load a disk.
The EII runs a diagnostic test everytime it boots. All leds are lighted very shortly during that process. If successful, the leds are dimmed and the disk is booted.
One of my EIIs is quite instable, resulting sometimes during booting in one of following scenarios:
- after powering on, it says "Emulator 2 Boot In Progress", all leds go ON and don't go OFF anymore; the EII hangs; no "insert diskette" request
- after powering on, it says "Emulator 2 Boot In Progress", all leds go ON and OFF again but then the EII hangs - no "Insert diskette" request
In my particular situation, the problem is often caused by a bad contact/connection of the ribbon cable which connects the keyboard to the motherboard. I just unplug and plug it, and my EII works fine again :-)
But any bad connection can cause the EII to hang during boot or even later (during playing music - a nightmare when you are on a live gig !). That's why sometimes people recommend to even refit every individual IC in their sockets (these are connections too...)