EIII internal hard drive replacement problems

[methree]

hi guys,

im trying to get an EIII's internal hard drive replaced but have been running into trouble.  the drive i bought was an apple brand IBM WDS-L80 (80MB), since it was mentioned as compatible here:

http://dvdborn.blogspot.com/2006/08/keeping-emulator-iii-alive-part-1.html

unfortunately, my tech has been having trouble getting this drive to work inside the eIII.

is there a step by step, easy to follow set of instructions documenting the entire process of replacing an internal eIII hard drive with another internal hard drive?  if so, can someone please post a link? if not, can someone please write one up to help my tech as well as others who may want to do this in the future? 

as a final note, i read about the compact flash card option but the OS in this machine was different from what was mentioned here on the forum, and i wasn't sure if the process would work, plus there were so many pages of discussion i found the whole thing hard to follow, so i opted to get this replacement hard drive instead and would like to complete this replacement without any more trouble.  please help!

thanks so much!    also, would it be possible for someone to edit (and post as a sticky) the compact flash drive replacement so instructions are simple to follow and so that currently available parts and sources are listed? 

[dr.c]

Hi,

The best of the best are these old silver aluminum Quantum drives you can find in old Macs. They are "Plug and Play".
Beware : when you change and reformat a drive, BEFORE DOING ANYTHING ELSE, save a bank into it, immediately, a blank one, it will always be time, after, to replace it by a usefull one.
The reason is the following, wich I have discovered, and being at this occasion, being entitled of the "E-Mu Bad ass" legion. After formating the software does not construct a catalog file into the disk, and then, after, it will return an error when you will try to load or do anything into it.

Second thing :always have a system floppy disk you made out of YOUR machine, then you can copy it to your HD, having a calibrated machine.

Concerning the ACARD, you can find some, cheap, at this place, if there are still some available :

http://eiiiforum.com/index.php?topic=2832.0

[methree]

ok, so, according to this blog entry, these will work:
http://dvdborn.blogspot.com/2006/08/keeping-emulator-iii-alive-part-1.html


Quantum Trailblazer
Quantum ProDrive LT 700MB SCSI - As found in the PowerMac PPC6100
Quantum Maverick ProDrive - As found in PowerMac PPC8500
Overal I had the most luck with different Quantum drives that were < 1GB.
All the Quantum drives came from old Apple PowerPC's (8500, 7500,...).

before i buy another drive that doesn't work, can you verify which if not all of these will be plug and play?  thanks!!!

[Wolfram]

What is happened if you try to boot with the IBM WDS-L80 ?

[methree]

nothing at all happened - the display was blank, no LED active on floppy drive unit and floppy drive didnt work - basically, the machine was frozen.
the original hard disk drive is, on the other hand, still mostly functional, but the first couple banks aren't, so it needs to be replaced. 

[Wolfram]

There is a jumper for Spinup. Set it, maybe it helps.
I used this drive external and it works.

[methree]

thanks for the tip, will check with my tech. 
any other advice regarding getting this drive to work?

[dvdborn]

Hi Methree,

It's been a busy couple of weeks for me. I saw the mail from you technician and have finally found the time to write a reply.

For the archive, here's what I suggested:


First things first, Does the EIII have firmware version 2.0? This will be shown in the display when you turn on the EIII.
If the unit doesn't have version 2.0, you might already be out of luck. Unless you can burn new EPROMS. I can provide you with the images if you'd need them.

Next, you should have a floppy containing OS version 2.42. This is the most recent OS version for the EIII.

When you connect the HD to the internal SCSI cable make sure that the HD doesn't have the same SCSI ID as the EIII. You can change the SCSI ID of the EIII in the Master Menu > 7. Disk Utilities > 0. Change SCSI ID#. Also, make sure that the HD is terminated.

Do you happen to have an old Mac and/or an external SCSI case that you can use to test that the hard drive is still working? These old drives are long past their life expectancy.

If you do have a SCSI case that you can use for the hard drive I suggest that you connect the hard drive to the external SCSI connector of the EIII.

1. Connect the SCSI case to the external EIII SCSI connector and make sure that the SCSI chain is terminated
2. Put the floppy in the EIII and power the EIII on
3. Go to the Master Menu and select 7. Disk Utilities
4. Select 1. Mount Drives
5. Select 7. Format and see of the HD is available. If so, format it using the standard interleave setting of 2:1

I hope this helps.

[methree]

hey guys,

We were waiting for some drive jumpers to arrive before giving this new IBM drive another shot, but still no luck.  Here's what our tech did today...

Set jumper to autospin and scsi ID=0.
Installed the HD into the Eiii.
No terminator.
Powered up.
Nothing on display
installed the HD into an external CD drive w terminator.
Powered up.
EIII worked.EIII scanned the scsi line and floppy disc line.
EIII couldn’t  find any scsi devices on scsi line.
EIII read floppy drive system disk because SCSI device isn't found.
Went into special diagnostic mode.Selected internal hard disk drive unit.Tried to format, read and write - all of which should be fast because it's in diagnostic mode.
After formatting, unit kept on reading and writing, read, write, etc… for four hours (!) so he interrupted this by pushing enter.  Went back into normal mode.  Pushed Master.  Disk utility mode.  Tried to mount but the unit couldn’t find / mount it. He then remembered that the original HD unit was locked, so he put back the original HD unit. Unlocked it. Put back the new HD unit and still couldn’t mount it.

does anyone see anything wrong with this procedure?  meanwhile, we did order an exact replacement for the original drive (Seagate ST251N) and should have that next week.  any more tips?

thanks!

[dr.c]

Again and again, especially to dvdborn wich seems to have a shift register brain 

when you finish formatting a disk, especially if its a startup one, you must ABSOLUTELY AND BEFORE DOING ANYTHING ELSE, save a bank on the damn disk, even tyought there are no datas, because the disk must have a catalog, and if it doesn't, it will not work. So, when you save a bank, and again : IMMEDIATELY AFTER FORMATING, it creates one.

[dvdborn]

Dr. C is right. 
And I'd like to add: don't forget to transfer the OS to the HD.

I remember that the verification process while formatting an HD took > 3 hours. If I'm not mistaken you could abort this process. But the next thing you had to do was to save a bank.

If formatting still fails, try a different interleave setting.

[Wolfram]

Formating goes quick, verifying taks a long time.
If you choose the cursors before you confirm formatting you have options for verifying.
So is goes quicker.  :-)

[dr.c]

And as well, your disk has to be on SDSI ID : 1, not zero !

By convention, here are the ID's :

0 : is the internal CD of a Mac
ID 1 Internal EIII disk
SCSI 2 : EII computer ID
SCSI 3 : CDROM
SCSI 4 : Mass storage (MO, tape...
SCSI 5 : What you want
SCSI 5 : What you want
SCSI 7 : Mac computer SCSI ID

To put your EIII computer to SCSI 2, go to special, set it and restart.

[methree]

hey guys,

so, we got the new drive (Seagate ST251N) and tried to install it before reading the additional comments posted on the 6th but still had problems.

my tech says the scsi ID number he used was zero because thats the ID number when there's no  jumper installed, but this is how the original hard drive (Seagate ST251N) inside the machine was when we got it, and the original drive was mostly working (except for a couple of the first banks). 
when this new drive was set to ID=0 (meaning no jumper was installed), the drive still mounted, so the e3 recognized it ok.  everything seemed to work - the drive was connected and recognized, and making a healthy hard drive sound.  the e3 started formatting and the sound it made was typical of this type of drive being formatted, but after a few minutes, the formatting stopped.
so, the question is - why did it stop?

what’s an interleave setting and what should we change it to? do you mean the scsi ID jumper setting? if so, any suggestions as to alternate settings?  why would this matter if the drive was recognized and no other devices were connected?

here’s a detailed rundown of exactly what he did, in case you guys have any more suggestions:

removed old drive. 
Removed one jumper from the left side. Installed the jumper on the new drive same position. (he says this is a parity jumper and not a scsi bus #)
Installed internally. 
Master. 
7 disk utilities. 
1 mount drives
Enter
(Drive makes sound)
7 disk utilities
7 format disk
Enter
Should be able to select floppy or internal HD But were only able to access floppy. 
So we needed to make sure HD worked. Went into master mode. 
8 special
0 for diagnostics
Password 1358
8 disk diagnostics
Enter
1 hd select drive 
Enter
Internal hd
Enter
4 HD write/rd/reass.
Enter
D1 destroys all. 
Yes
Format drive?
Yes
(Good sound from drive)
Display reads HD BURNIN
Initial formatting....
(Drive makes formatting sound)
Does this for a few hours. Loops about 15 times. We stopped it by holding enter and waiting a minute. 
Master mode. 
Push 7 disk utility. 
Select mount drive. Enter. 
Drive makes sound. 
7 disk utilities.
7 format disk. 
Enter. 
Select drive (internal hd)
Enter. 
Are you sure? Yes
Formatting...
"Drive not formatted!" Message appeared after 5 minutes. 

Also tried to do diagnostic read write reassign Mode with error correction on and with error correction off, and there was no difference.

how would you guys go about formatting a drive that was already formatted for PC or mac?  is there a different procedure or should the above procedure worked? 
thanks!!

[dr.c]

On the processor board, there is a big 40 pin IC references NCR5380. Take it off, put it back in, and retry.

you wrote :

Set jumper to autospin and scsi ID=0.
Installed the HD into the Eiii.
No terminator.

Why in hell, no terminator ?

Put it back, or I kill you !!!!